3.2 911 Carrera '88 Anniversary or Commemorative Model?

[Diamond911]

Hello,

First post, so please take it easy on me (I hope I have posted in the correct area). I am from Perth in Western Australia.

I have been researching 1987 - 1989 G50 Carrera's now for about 12 months and have hopefully found what I am looking for. It is a build date 1987 but model 1988 with VIN WPOZZZ91ZJS100520 Engine number 64J00926. I have put down a refundable deposit subject to a full PPI which is being conducted early next week. I would like to pick your brains to confirm whether this is an original 88 Anniversary or Commemorative Model?





It is a coupe and can be seen at:
http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-car/PORSCHE/911%20CARRERA/New%20South%20Wales/csn5439403.aspx

The car has no rear Carrera badge as you can see in the photographs in the link.
The interior does not have the "F.Porsce" signatures embossed in the seats.
The car is described as a Diamond Blue Metallic paint with similar colour leather interior.
On the glove box there is a plaque denoting 250,000.
It has a short shift, sunroof and coloured Fuch wheel centres as standard.
15" Fuch wheels.
It has an original logbook with a full service history including 13 stamps in total.
The car is completely original apart from a stainless steel free flow exhaust.
Comes with original stereo system.

The previous owner researched the car and received a letter of verification from Porsche Cars Australia, stating the following:
"RE: 1988 911 "25 Year" Coupes VIN VIN WPOZZZ91ZJS100520. The vehichle is a "special edition - 25 year 911". This car has a special interior - blue metallic leather and silver-blue carpet. 875 were made worldwide. 300 going to the USA, 250 to Germany, 50 to the UK, and only 5 to Australia. Best Regards, xxxxx, Customer Commitment Advisor, Porsche Cars Australia".

It would be really appreciated if I could pick your brains to see if this meets all the criteria to confirm that it is as it says it is, an 88 Anniversary or Commemorative Model (which it is I am not sure).

I would also be keen to hear any words of advice, encouragement or other on the car.

thankyou very much.
Bryan

[KFC911]

Hi Bryan ,and welcome aboard! I can't open that link, and I'll be back to later to offer my .02 worth. In the meantime, do a search on "Commemorative Edition", etc. (as that what the '88s are, vs the '89 Anniversary Editions) and you'll find several threads discussing these two offerings. I'm sure others will chime in too...

[Diamond911]

Hi KC911,

Have updated the link so it should work for you now, sorry about that.

Yes, have been searching and found some great information. However, I can't explain the lack of the "F.Porsche" signatures in the seats, the lack of 16" Fuch colour coded wheels, and the lack of a Carrera badge on the tail.

It has the correct colours all around and a plaque on the glove box, and apparently the official check through Porshce Australia confirms the VIN is that of a special model.

I thought that others with far more experience than me might be able to explain the above.

thanks

[rdrr]

Hi Bryan,
That is quite a nice looking car. I can't give you a definitive answer on whether it is a commemorative edition or anniversary car, however I think it is an anniversary. My own 89 Carrera 3.2 is also an anniversary edition. It has the metallic blue interior and the silver blue carpet, but the exterior is marine blue metallic. To confirm that it is an anniversary, you need to check the option codes on the label under the hood. For ROW cars, option code 099 indicates a 25th anniversary model. From what I have read, the ROW cars did not have the signature on the headrest, nor did they have a plaque on the dash (although the one you are looking at does seem to have one).
I have looked up the vin and engine number on www.elferhelfer.de and it indicates that it is an 88 Model with a 217 hp engine (with catalytic converter).
If you cannot check the label under the hood, I think the confirmation from Porsche is evidence enough that this is in fact an anniversary model, but you may want to confirm with them directly.
Other than that I've been told that 5-10% is as much of a premium as you would want to pay for an anniversary edition. At the end of the day they are nice and a little bit special, but the differences to standard are only in the options which could be had on any car, unlike for instance a Carrera CS.
Having said all that, the car you are looking at looks very good. Low kms, good service history, well maintained, anniversary edition, etc. Is it worth 58K? Hmm, I've seen some great G50 Carrera's in the low to mid fifties so given a 5-10% premium it's probably in the ballpark, maybe a little high. I saw a marine blue anniversary coupe a year ago being sold around 50K, but it did not look as well maintained and had higher mileage.
Let us know if you go ahead. It will be good to have another Australian Anniversary Carrera on the board.

[Diamond911]

Hi Eckhard,

Thankyou for your reply, and a nice looking 911 you have at that!

I did not know about the www.elferhelfer.com site that you mentioned so I checked it out myself and I got a different result on the VIN.

1988
911 Carrera 930/20 231/5900 284/4800 WPOZZZ91ZJS100001-3580 63J00001 ff.
3580

It confirmed that it is a 231hp car as you would expect for an Australian delivered car. Not quite sure how you came up with the 217.

It's great to hear from a fellow enthusiast in Australia when posting on an international board such as this.

I am still trying to get through to the Porsche factory as suggested on www.impactbumpers.com but I don't seem to be able to get through. The number I am trying is:
0049 - 711-911-12281 (but with 0011 in front from Australia and dropping the double zero ie 0011 49 711 911 12281.

thanks again for your assistance and I welcome all further comments.

cheers,
Bryan

[Diamond911]

OK.

Starting to answer some of my own questions with a hell of a lot more reading and searching this forum and Pelican Parts.

The 88 Commemorative Edition had the following options:
M498 = Delete rear model designation (I will need to check this on the option plate by getting photographic proof).
Standard wheels were 15 x 7" and 8" colour matched rims. So they could be the correct rims with a coat of black on the Fuchs (by the looks of it in the photos).
The "F.Porsche" embossing on the front seats was not included on the ROW 88 Commemorative Edition cars.

This could explain and confirm the details of the car are correct.
However, I am still trying to get through to the Porsche Classic Car dept without any luck. It's either engaged or rings out.

[Diamond911]

This site is such a great resource and you guys are so helpful, I really appreciate it.

Another question I have relates to the maintenance records and oil change frequency.

The log book history has noted oil changes/services at the following intervals:

625 miles
7500 miles
13750
18750
26250
36250
43750
49375
56250
60000
63496
68103 miles
(I must have missed writing one down on the phone as there are 13 in the book and only 12 listed above)

There are a total of 13 stamps with an average service interval of 5600miles. Does this sound a reasonable to you guys?

thanks

[rusnak]

That's a stunning 911. Please never call it a "Pee Car".

See if you can get them to lower their price due to the expected need to replace the front spoiler, the non-stock muffler, and the high side AC valve. Those are only negotiating points. If it passes ppi, then it's a find.

[Kevin Saunders]

Check out my thread on the 1988 Weissach I posted in the marketplace forum. This is an excellent car going for 23K less than the one you have shown. The car is still for sale in British Columbia. I am still considering it. For $35K Canadian it seems like too much to be paying according to the replies I received.

1977 911S
1969 TR6

[rdrr]

Hi again Bryan,
the engine number on this car starts with 64 rather than 63. The 63s have a 930/20 engine with 231 hp, 64s denote the 930/25 engine - 217 hp with cat. Here's the link:

http://www.elferhelfer.de/fzident/fzident84-89.htm

I think ROW cars in 88 had the 930/20 as standard, but Australia would have mandated the catalytic converter back then already - same as the US.

[rdrr]

On the rims, they have also been polished, which is not the standard finish. So I think the original ones were either replaced or polished and repainted at some point.

[88-diamondblue]

The CE cars were only a cosmetic package with the Diamond Blue paint, color matched 7x8x15's, short shift, interior and carpet color. Any other options that were on 911's were available. The wheels have been polished as said above, non stock exhaust, painted fan and a/c mods. I have never heard of them coming without the F Porsche on the seats. According to Bruce Anderson the special editions only add 10% to the value. Can't say I agree with that as it is only worth more if it is what you want. What are 911's selling for in the area? I couldn't agree more on the color and it is a coupe.

Mine came with the "Carrera" delete option and other than that was stock. Welcome to the CE club if you get it.

[Diamond911]

thanks Eckhard.

Is your '89 a 217hp 930/25 engine?
Was there a cutoff date after which all Australian delivered 911s were 931/25s or were there still 231hp 930/20s delivered?

thanks rusnak.

what's the go with a high AC valve and why is this a bargaining point? I haven't come across this before.

thanks again.

[rdrr]

Mine is a private import from Hong Kong and has the 930/20 engine. Australian Carrera's 86-89 that I have looked at closely have all had the 930/25 engine. I have assumed that the 84-85s are the same, but it's certainly possible that the earlier ones had the 930/20. Sorry but I can't answer that one definitively.

When I bought my car, I had no idea that it was an anniversary and neither did the previous 2 owners. It was a nice surprise.

[88-diamondblue]

The 89 Anniversary model "25th Anniversary of the 911" model never had signature seats. The seats had complimenting color piping on the seats. The 88 was the Commemorative Edition (commerating the 250,000 911 built) have the blue/silver seats with a silver/blue carpeting. As far as I know all the cars had the signature seats that many called this the "signature edition". Do a search as there are lots of threads on the CE cars.

[Diamond911]

thanks 88-diamondblue.

I have done a lot of searching on this forum and others, and have read the plethora of threads on the CE model.

I have still come across a lot of conflicting information about the CE model. It seems quite a few had the rear badge delete option. I have read that the ROW model did not have embossed seats. I cannot confirm this however.

[88-diamondblue]

That is the correct badge for the ROW model showing 87 model year. It could very well be that Porsche didn't do the signature on the ROW models. Nothing would surprise me with what Porsche did or did not option the 911's with. Looks like a great car if PPI checks out. But i am a little biased too

[exponence]

Hallo Bryan,

nice car

What the Customer support of Porsche Cars Australia wrote is wrong...
its definitely not an "25 anniversary"

It is an 250.000 911 Edition..this is MY88 with J in the VIN

25 anniversary is "K" and MY89 and an option code M097orM098 orM099

your VIN matches the CE Model 250.000
I know about 60 cars...and they have numbers close to yours .
all produced in a series, so it makes sense.

M498 rear badge delete is correct. Do you have the short gear shift?

243, 498, 650, 980 this are typical CE M codes.

---------------------
Your Fuchs wheels are maybe not original...you have the badge..
the only thing ist the missing signature in the seats.

The seats are the same (without sign)in an 89 M099 anniversary-but its a different car/VIN

I never heard about ROW models without signature.
The Vin Numbers around your car all have the signature...but 514 is a later car
it started with 0061 and there are around 550-600 CE coupes.

There are also CE Lookalikes also with 88 VINs but later...and not with badge or metallic leather interior.

everything is possible, also a CE without signatures
Do you now any other australian CE?

----------------------------
The only thing you can check is your production number.

You can find it everywher in the car written with yellow pencil or as small price tag decal.
it is a number like 182467 or so.

take a look under your driver carpet.
.there is a plastic part on the mat ( under the driver seat)
maybe there is your number??

Now remove the seats and take a look inside.(under).
maybe you can find another decal with the same number.?..(small yellow stickers).
A lot of work
God knows why they or someone changed the seats or if its original...
it makes no difference for the car.


good luck,

Jo --sorry for my germish english

[Diamond911]

Hi Jo, 88-diamondblue and others that have helped out along the way.

Well I purchased the 911.....my first! so I am pretty excited.

Even better, my wife gave birth to our little daughter (first child) on the same day that I purchased the Carrera - so two new babies on the one day! (My daughter was born on Monday 11th 8 pound 9oz and is healthy and doing well).

I won't receive the 911 for another week and a half as it is being transported to me from the Eastern states of Australia (Sydney).

I had the PPI done and the guy said that it is the best and cleanest Carrera he has ever seen or driven (and he has seen a lot). The compressions came back as 155, 150, 155, 150, 155, 160. The PPI could not identify and panel or rust damage or anything of substance, only a couple of very minor cosmetics such as the gear shift knob is worn (as you would expect from 21yrs of use) and one very small corner section of the roof lining needs reglueing. A couple of electrical issues with the electric seats but these are being fixed by the dealer prior to delivery.

I confirmed what options are on the car and they are:
L697 = Diamond Blue paint colour;
C23 = Australia
243 = Short shift
425 = rear wiper
454 = cruise control
490 = Hi-Fi
498 = Delete rear badge
559 = air cond
650 = sunroof
975 = velour carpet luggage
980 = Raf leather

I rang Porsche in Germany and they confirmed that it is a special edition from the VIN. I also re-rang Porsche Australia to confirm that the VIN is a Commemorative Edn.

I understand that the Fuch's have had the centres re-painted.

Jo - no don't know of any other CE's in Australia as there were only 5 delivered in total, so not very many.

All in all I think that I have found myself a very nice 911 and I am looking forward to the delivery of my car on about March 26th so that I can enjoy it! Thanks again for your help.

[dshepp806]

CE not an SA...