starter won't turn

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

It's a lightweight Tilton, only a couple of years old, and all I get when I turn the ignition key is a solenoid click. Happened to me a few days ago and I let the car roll downhill a bit and did a pop-the-clutch jumpstart and everything was fine and the starter worked fine for several days thereafter.

Yesterday it went tits-up again.

I know that the first thing everybody says is "check the grounding," but this car was totally apart, the equivalent of a frame-off rebuild, five or six years ago. The grounds _can't_ be that bad. Battery was relocated to the smuggler's box a year ago and a master switch installed, all new ground cables from battery and from transmission. If a ground has already gone bad, I don't want to own a Porsche of this generation, because that's whack.

So I'm assuming my problem is NOT the grounding, NOT the ignition switch (it obviously sends current), NOT the starter solenoid (it obviously reacts to the currrent) and NOT the Bendix, or whatever ring-gear-engagement mechanism a Tilton uses, since the starter motor does not spin disengaged. Am I right in assuming I have a bad starter motor?

[DW SD]

How about the battery condition itself? What is the voltage with no load? Fully charged is 12.8 or so.

Can you check voltage at the big positive terminal at the starter under cranking? You should have 12+ volts AFTER the anti-climactic click at the large positive lug on the starter assembly.

Also, when it is running, check voltage at the battery. You should have 13.5 to 14.5, meaning the alternator is charging.

*note, the click that you hear is the solenoid closing, which is triggered by low current 12V from the ignition switch (at start position). The solenoid delivers high current power to the starter motor itself, in addition to tripping the bendix.
Doug

[RoninLB]

ignition sw to solenoid wiring isn't the greatest.. but you already know that.



next time it happens try a direct sol jump from starter main power lug.. I bet starter spins ok.

[911pcars]

If the battery is okay, I suspect the solenoid too. If it was the actual starter motor, you'd observe a large voltage drop when cranking, e.g. 12 > 9 volts. A poor man's method is to switch the headlights ON, then rotate the ignition switch to "crank". If the headlights dim appreciably, the starter is using the voltage even though it doesn't rotate - something is malfunctioning in the motor. If the headlights don't dim, the battery voltage isn't reaching the motor - bad solenoid (it's clicking but not much else).

Sherwood

[Gogar]

Is the problem more prevalent with hot temps?

Hot motor/starter = much more difficult to turn.

[rnln]

Can you run (add) a wire to test the voltage of the signal wire (right at the starter) when it happen. I did so and got very low voltage there, only when it happen.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Problem has nothing to do with temp. Starter won't turn even with the car cold. In a few minutes, I'm gong to try Ron's suggestion to jump the starter directly.

[dypascal]

try to knock the starter motor with a mallet it could be the brushes.good luck.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Tried what Ron said--directly jumping the two large posts on the starter solenoid--and it gave me nothing, no cranking. Since the starter is getting plenty of battery power, I assume that means the motor is bad.

Funny, Randall Kelsey, who runs Dyson Racing's RS Spyder program, recently told me that they've stopped using Tilton starters "because the company has gone to scheiss." I guess they have, if my Tilton dies after 1,000 miles or so.

I've heard of using a mallet on a starter to free a sticky Bendix, but never to jar brushes into place. I'll try it next...

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I'll be damned. Pascal's mallet trick worked, starter now works fine. Merci, monsieur.

Should I assume this has actually jarred a brush back into place and I'm now good to go, or is this something that would likely happen again soon and will strand me? i.e. should I now have the starter pulled and checked out? (Ain't gonna do it myself lying in the driveway...)

[gsmith660]

This sounds like the same problem as with the old 350 chevy motors they only last 1 or 2 years because of heat, whacking with the mallet works on them also but it comes back, I think the connection between the soleniod and the motor breaks down.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I shouldn't think 911 starters would have a major heat problem in normal use. Rather than being alongside the block and close to the exhaust, as in a Smallblock, they're alongside the transmission and forward of the heatflow aft from the exhaust, They're also well-exposed to a certain amount of airflow traveling under the car rather than being inside an engine compartment.

[Joe Bob]

Pull it, open it up and look for the obvious....could be a schitty solder joint, sticky solenoid needing lube....

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

I shouldn't think 911 starters would have a major heat problem in normal use. Rather than being alongside the block and close to the exhaust, as in a Smallblock, they're alongside the transmission and forward of the heatflow aft from the exhaust, They're also well-exposed to a certain amount of airflow traveling under the car rather than being inside an engine compartment.

Well, they do get hot, but I suspect your problem has more to do with the motor itself and the fact that the car sits idle over the winter. You will only know what the true cause is when you have the thing removed and opened up. Perhaps a simple service will prevent further occurrences. Perhaps the Tilton is junk.

I've had to beat on small block starters over the years but ultimately they had to come out. They never healed themselves.

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

I shouldn't think 911 starters would have a major heat problem in normal use. Rather than being alongside the block and close to the exhaust, as in a Smallblock, they're alongside the transmission and forward of the heatflow aft from the exhaust, They're also well-exposed to a certain amount of airflow traveling under the car rather than being inside an engine compartment.

What gets the 350 starter is the radiant heat from the exhaust directly above that heat soaks it when you shut down I wouldn't think the 911 starter would have the same problem with its position, its just an idea to throw around.

[911pcars]

Everyone needs an assortment of BFHs in their tool box. Sometimes the shock helps, sometimes not. I'd remove and bench-test it, then disassemble and take a look. Could be the armature fits too tightly inside the field coils, the brushes aren't making good contact with a dirty commutator, + a dozen other things.

I've heard some things about Tilton-branded starters too, but that's not definitive.

Sherwood

[RoninLB]

[dypascal]

I think it'll happen again soon.If you are a DIY,it's an easy job to remove an check/replace the brushes.If not,it's better to send it to a workshop to renew it,it doesn't cost much.Cheers.

Pascal

[rnln]

This seem like same problem I, and many others have, knocking on the starter with a hammer works. Increase voltage on the signal wire (yellow) works too but the voltage works better since we can't get under the car any time and anywhere we want.
On my problem, after many attempts, I found that when it happen, the voltage on this signal wire drops from around 11v to 7v. Now I added a wire from the engine bay to the starter solenoid to hot start it when it happens.
Yes, these are 2 different solutions to treat totally different thing issues. But I think I had hard time to spin the starter when both problems happen at the same time (weak voltage and starter jam).
PS: it happend more often in the hot summer.

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

I'll be damned. Pascal's mallet trick worked, starter now works fine. Merci, monsieur.

Should I assume this has actually jarred a brush back into place and I'm now good to go, or is this something that would likely happen again soon and will strand me? i.e. should I now have the starter pulled and checked out? (Ain't gonna do it myself lying in the driveway...)

[3.2 CAB]

It does sound as if it is developing a bad spot in field coil/armature area, possibly from a bearing of sleeve bushing starting to go bad or has gone bad, and the shaft is now off center axis and allowing magnetic attraction between the armature and the field coil winding plates, instead of a magnetic field that produces the attraction needed for complete rotation of the armature or commutator shaft of the motor.