PolyGraphite - too harsh for street?

[Mark McClure]

Hi all,

My suspension rebuild has hit a delay whilst I build a tool for installing the ball joint and machining of the a-arm bushings......so to speed things up I spoke to the local p-car suspension man have him install ball joint and machine bushings.......he raised the fact that the polygraphite is too harsh for the street, refering to the road noise and harshness of the ride.

What are other peoples opinions of the polygraphite a-arm bushings?

bearing in mind that they will be machined and "zerked" so squeak is not a factor!

standard t-bars and sway bars on an 86.

New:
Bilstein sport rear
Bilstein HD front
Polygraphite strut mounts
Rubber sway bar bushings front/rear
Turbo Tie rods
Ball joints
Netrix spring plat bushings
Polygraphite training arm bushings
Drop links
Bump steer


Thanks

Mark.....

ps... did do a search but hard to find a definative answer to the harshness question!

[Dixie]

The ride quailty would not bother me, but harshness is subjective. I can tell you they will squeek. Machined, grooved, zerked, lubed... It does not matter.

[Jim Richards]

They shouldn't be any problem. I'd be more concerned about having the right shocks or valving for the shocks to achieve the desired ride comfort. Tires will make a difference, too. Real low aspect ratio tires will give you a more harsh ride than taller sidewalled tires.

[the]

I've had them on a couple of cars, and have never noticed any difference at all in the ride (of course, it's comparing worn stock rubber bushings with new PG bushings).

And have never had a set squeak, even after many years and thousands of miles. (Of course, properly fitted and machined - yeah, they probably won't last 30 years like the OE rubber ones did, but they can give many years of fine, squeak free service if fitted properly).

[RoninLB]

I rode in a 72s with stock suspension except neatrix rear and polygraphite A-arms.

My 77 has poly front and rear so I'm used to it.

I was surprised how soft the 72s ride was. I couldn't notice the fronts had poly.

[GaryR]

Does Elephant Racing make Polybronze (A-Arm and rear spring plate bushings) and rear trailing arm monoballs for your car? If so thats the way I would go. Long lasting, grease-able, and will give you the suspension movement the engineers designed. Anyone that has felt the sponginess of the rubber bushing (new or otherwise) and then felt/see how it moves with greased "solid" bushings would never even think of using rubber again. You want the most pleasant ride possible? Go with rubber. You want the most precise steering/handling and road feel? Polybronze. JMO of course..

[pwd72s]

Ron is referring to my old car, now residing in Istanbul. I had the suspension completely rebuilt at ROTHSPORT...owner Jeff Gamroth a former crew chief in the ALMS. I had my own ideas after reading all the suspension stuff here. Ideas Jeff didn't agree with. Finally, I wised up, realized his qualifications were high. So I told him to make it a car he'd like to drive on the street. IMHO, he succeeded admirably.

Actually the suspension NOT stock. 23-28 on the Torsion bars, 19mm F&R on the sway bars, and the original Konis replaced with Bilstein. Gamroth has a trick way of machining the Koni front struts to accept Bilstein inserts. Rear shocks rattlecanned Chevvy engine block orange. All looks stock to the casual observer.

No complaints on ride quality from Evren. No squeaks...

[Mark McClure]

Thanks for the advice and opinions guys....I think that I will go with the collective advide from this board. Most people are saying the hard polybronze is the ultimate Polygraphite as a second and rubber last.

Polybronze is too costly so polygraphite it is! wanted to save some money to invest in upgrading the t-bars later.

Thanks

Mark..........

[afterburn 549]

Just say ERP. call Chuck !

[MichiganMat]

If you go with the polygraphite bushing, be sure to sand them down / scuff them before install, that will help eliminate some of the squeaking.

I noticed a huge difference my ride quality when I put polygraphite's in my rear arms, harshness that I don't want back. I've gone back to rubber for those. The front polygraphite bushines also squeaked and lurched until I got them sanded and seated properly. Sometimes the factory solution is the best solution, just my $0.02

- m

[RWebb]

ok, lets' keep things straight...

"poly's"?? M. mat - meaning what?

ERP = Carey Eisenlohr Racing Products - makes very light tubular Al front suspension & other items

Elephant Racing = Chuck Moreland - makes polybronze and numerous other products for racing or street use

I'm surprised Paul's car was that stiff...

[JTL]

I've looked at countless threads on suspension bushings. My conclusion is that the elephant pbbs are the only way to go. My car has them on the a-arms. Frankly, everything is a waste of money and time, imo.

jt
-84 targa

[afterburn 549]

Ditto, Jtl

[JTL]

Correction - everything else other than elephant pbbs are not worth it; again, in my opinion.

jt

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by RWebb

ok, lets' keep things straight...

"poly's"?? M. mat - meaning what?

polyGRAPHITE arm bushings, the inside ones, no the outter spring-plate bushings.

[afterburn 549]

Just installed Chucks stuff in my car, Would do it again, also install his Decamber lower ball joints while you are there to take advavtage of your time.
You will be glad you did!!

[pwd72s]

Once more into the breech. Maybe I didn't stress it enough. My old car was done with Neatrix rear, polygraphite front. No squeaks...done by a pro who is a former ALMS crew chief. I had discussed all the things being pushed here with him...then asked him to give my car a ride he'd enjoy driving on the street. The car's suspension was completely taken apart and redone, then corner balanced and aligned.

This totally transformed the car to the better. Why I decided to pass the car on is a long story, but it had nothing to do with the car itself...

[RWebb]

I meant the stiff torsion bars, Paul. 23 is a lot in front & 28 rear is a fair amt. also.

[Todd Simpson]

I noticed a huge difference my ride quality when I put polygraphite's in my rear arms, harshness that I don't want back. I've gone back to rubber for those.

Good call. The polygraphite should NOT be used for rear trailing arms. You need a flexible (rubber or monoball) joint in order to properly align the car. The PG's I had also had no metal sleeve, meaning they quickly developed a lot of play.

I had no luck with PG in the front either, squeaking and also a lot of play after 2 years of use. PB is in there now.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Todd Simpson

Good call. The polygraphite should NOT be used for rear trailing arms. You need a flexible (rubber or monoball) joint in order to properly align the car. The PG's I had also had no metal sleeve, meaning they quickly developed a lot of play.

I had no luck with PG in the front either, squeaking and also a lot of play after 2 years of use. PB is in there now.

Yes, only monoballs will give you both consistent freedom of travel as your trailing arm pivot. For spring plate, only the ERP Polybronze gives you the pure, unobstructed travel the engineers designed in. Rubber? BAH!! I wish there was a video showing the restriction rubber gives in just the travel swing of both front A-arms and rear trailing arms. FORGET talking about the resistance it gives and the flex it allows! You want to mamby-pamby around and cruise from one Porsche Club Concour to another? Rubber is the way. You want to DRIVE your car? Move on....