Road Noise: Yokohama AVS ES 100 Tires - Time to Replace?

[ntrylvl]

My recently-purchased '86 Targa has Yokohama AVS ES100 tires on it. Although the tread on all 4 tires appears to be relatively deep, I noticed some road noise from the rear when coming to a stop, so I checked and found that the sidewall of my left rear tire is noticeably out of round in a couple of spots.

Could this be because the tires were left flat at some point for an extended period of time, or is it more likely that this is just an imperfection in the tire? I'm assuming the former, and that the tires are also several years old, but I cannot figure out how to determine the manufacture date on these particular tires.

Any thoughts and/or experiences would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Chris

[old man neri]

This is how to determine the age of a tire.

However, if your sidewall is warped it is most likely damaged and should be replaced right away.

[Venetian]

I have the same tires which are approx 4 yrs(12000 miles)old and have good tread. Similarly notice a lot of road noise when rolling to a stop. Porsche mechanic/racer says this is normal for these tires. I do not recall the noise when tires were new.

[Rouxzy]

Expect the noise to get worse, at least that what my experience was. I found that as the tires wore down they got noisy. At the end it sounded like truck tires on the car.
Tom

[dentist90]

Originally Posted by Venetian

I have the same tires which are approx 4 yrs(12000 miles)old and have good tread.

You're doing well. My rears were worn down to the treadwear indicators after just two seasons (~15,000 km) of road use. No issues with noise, really. Engine and stereo are much louder than tires for me.

[Dantilla]

I put a set of ES100s on my car, and removed them after a few hundred miles.

Such poor traction, I figure that there must be silicone lubricant in the rubber compound.

[efhughes3]

They really are an economy tire.....go shop for some new rubber.

[ntrylvl]

Economy or not, I have a feeling mine are old and/or damaged, so I'm going to get new ones anyway.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I put a set of ES100s on my car, and removed them after a few hundred miles.

Such poor traction, I figure that there must be silicone lubricant in the rubber compound.

I believe there is a mold release agent on tires that wears off after a few hundred miles. Could that have been the problem with your tires?

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

I believe there is a mold release agent on tires that wears off after a few hundred miles. Could that have been the problem with your tires?

I'm familiar with mold release. I usually drive a car hard for a bit after installing new tires to quickly wear it off the tread surface. It doesn't last more than a few miles.

I drove a 944 with ES100s, and they seemed to perform pretty good, so I went ahead and put them on the 911. Well after the mold release was gone, my 911 simply overpowered these tires. I should note that my 911 has been modded- 3.2 with short gears in a 2200 lb 1973 coupe, while the 944 was stock.

Acceleration, cornering, braking, didn't matter. The ES100s gave up traction way too early for safe driving. I switched to Bridgestone S0-3s for street driving. Like night and day difference.

As stated above, the ES100 is simply an economy tire. It does a good job of keeping the rims off the pavement, but not much else. Definately NOT a high-performance tire.

[wastintime]

I'm going to disagree, I think the ES-100 is an amazing tire, it is inexpensive compared to many others, but it has great traction, not the best temperature handling, that's my only complaint. Phenomenal in the rain too. They've always been noisy tires, and it gets worse as they wear, but it's a tradeoff for the performance you get from them. I can't imagine anyone would say they have poor traction unless they were driving them in freezing temperatures as it is very much a summer tire. I've run 3 sets of them on 2 911s and 2 sets on my WRX. I'd run them again if yokohama was going to start making them again.

Chris, my question to you is when you said your sidewall was out of round... what do you mean by that? A sidewall can't get "out of round" Unless you're talking about seeing bulges in the sidewalls which probably indicates hitting curbs at speed with them. I wouldn't be the least bit concerned with the road noise, but if you have structural damage to the tires, then YES you probably should replace them.

[ntrylvl]

Andrew,

Thanks for addressing the out-of-round issue. There are indeed bulges. I have attached a couple of images. As far as I can tell, these are only on the driver's rear tire. Based on what I discussed with the PO, I don't think a curb was hit at a high speed, and certainly not in reverse. My sense is that either the tire was allowed to go flat and stay that way for a long time (the car was not driven for extended periods of time), or that the tire is just defective. Either way, I'm going to replace it, and perhaps all of them if they are old...which I believe they are.

Thanks for your help.

[old man neri]

It might have hit a pot hole at high speed. In any case it should be replaced.

[911longhorn]

That blister looks like air is getting in between the plies of the tire. You should replace it sooner than later.

[ntrylvl]

Thanks, guys. On my way to do that now...after I get my 914 towed home from the shopping center up the hill (the brakes decided to stop working yesterday)

[mkossler]

The picture shows what we used to call a "zipper" in the tire business (at least, the tire business in my neck of the woods ). One or more of the radial plies has torn/split, creating what appears to be a "bubble". This is indeed caused by an impact to the tire, or in some rare cases can be caused by extreme damage during mounting to the the bead area that actually penetrates the chafer layer. Very rare.

It is not air between the plies - the airtight compounds are innermost on the tire, inside the radial plies. The compounds outside this layer are not airtight. Loss of integrity in the airtight layer in the sidewall will result in a flat tire relatively quickly.

In any event, you are doing the right thing in replacing the tire immediately.

Cheers,

[Mitch Leland]

Can I jump in here and ask if the Yokos are just noisier than some other brands. We have some pop corn asphalt highways here in Texas and the noise is deafening... However as soon as you transition onto a smoother surface a lot of the noise goes away.

I'm wondering if another brand of tires would do the same thing? I thought most of the noise was being transmitted up through the 930 suspension.

Thanks,

[RWebb]

a lot of it surely is being transmitted that way

both suspension and tires for a race car or "sports" car are at odds with NVH criteria - that is one of the tradeoffs you make for a sports car

tires for a high performance/luxury sedan often maintain good performance and good NVH traits - tho neither is maximized
-- you may want to look into those

also: make sure your suspension has been renewed and devote attention* to noise reduction techniques on the body of the car

* that translates into blood, sweat, and tears (plus money, weight and angst)

[mkossler]

Different tread patterns and compounds can absolutely affect the sound level, depending on surface and speed. Today's tires are supposedly engineered to limit the sound signature as much as possible, without sacrificing treadwear, traction and temperature performance targets.

I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise that the complaints I hear about excessive noise seem to involve tires that provide good traction performance but are a relative bargain. It may just be that the cost differential is as much in the R&D and engineering as it is in the materials and fabrication.

[ntrylvl]

So I stopped by a couple of local tire shops (those which are open on Sundays) and, not surprisingly, neither had ANYTHING in the correct size to replace the bad tire, let alone all 4. I know the Yoko AVS ES100's are discontinued, but I was hoping somebody would have them anyway, or at least one of the other options discussed in this forum and other places. At this point, I'm pretty sure I want to just replace all 4 since I confirmed that they were made in 2003...so they will be ready for the grave sooner than later anyway.

So I started thinking, and I wanted to confirm....

My '86 Targa has Fuchs from a same-year 930, which I am 85% certain are 7x16 in the front and 9x16 in the rear.

My current tire sizes (the Yokos) are:

205/50/16 front
245/45/16 rear

Are these even the correct sizes, and if I decide to lower my car to Euro height, what sizes should I go for to make sure that I don't get any rubbing when I do go lower?

Thanks.