What am I worth?? Gulf 69....

[Sam 69 Gulf]

Not selling – just curious….
Anyone with any opinions on what the fair market value is of my car…..

1969 T, bare metal restoration – no rust
Fiberglass fenders, hood, bumpers and ducktail

1971 2.2T motor with 40 IDA’s – runs great – minor drops of oil if sits (valve covers mostly)

Completely new interior
Hound’s-tooth carpet (new)
RS door panels
Exotic car seats – Carrera model with new inertia belts

901 transmission – recently full rebuild by Eurosport and new clutch – perfect.

Fuchs 6’s and 7’s – polished

Upgraded torsion bars, adjustable rear sway.

New Gulf paint

Prototipio steering wheel etc etc etc

Too much more to mention.

Any thoughts would be appreciated….

[Macroni]

Starting point would be $35,000, depending upon fit and finish it could sell as high as $50,000. A very nice car sold earlier this year for $60,000. I would think your car would sell at the top end of the scale. A very nice 3.2T sold in what seemed like minutes for $30,000 recently. Currently, there are three other very nice early cars both listed that can be used as comps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1972-Porsche-Coupe-911T-911-Black-RS-Spec-Non-Sunroof_W0QQitemZ190231733906QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Tr ucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190231733906&

FS: 1972 Porsche 911 RS Targa Re-Creation with 3.6L SoCal

1971 R-Gruppe 911 RS Lightweight

[Matt Monson]

I took a good look at your car when you had it at Cars n Coffee last month (sorry, you weren't around and we didn't get to meet). I would say that the quality of fit and finish on your car is very high. Even without the correct engine, I would put it at $40K+

[LakeCleElum]

Wow - I bought a ONE OWNER '69 T Coupe last year. It also has a '72 2.2 with carbs and a 901. I paid $2,000.....I got it cheap as it already had the front pan replaced, but has rust issued in the rear seat area and the right side rocker. The owner thought 2nd gear was out, but it was just shift bushings.......

Yours is beautiful and agree with the above estimates.....How is the 2.2 for power in the lightweight 1969; an improvement over the 2.0?

[Elombard]

hmmm I would of thought 20-25 might even be difficult without a later bigger motor. It is a hot rod.

Very nice though the right buyer...

[Sam 69 Gulf]

Thanks for all the feedback. My thoughts were also in the $20 - $25K range but if any of you $50Kers want to cut a check! Seriously though - thanks!

As for 2.0 vs. 2.2 I cannot comment as i have only ever driven the 2.2l in this car. I will say though that the car LOOKS fast as hell and I have worked really hard to master the “I am too secure to need to race you’ look when the WRX / minivan or cement trucks pull up along side at the lights. (for good reason) Yep, its fun and very chuckable in the hills but sloooowww

Sam

[kenikh]

$35K for this level of detail is a good starting point. If it had a bigger motor to match its hot rod looks, it would get over $40K. It would be a dollar in-dollar out endeavor, but would sell faster. If just looking for insurance value, it's moot.

[M491Cabriolet]

Sorry guys...I don't understand the values you are quoting. Cool car, no doubt. I like it and would like to own it, but this is a 911T that is not original in most ways, as I understand it. How can it possibly be worth that kind of clink? It has unoriginal paint, unoriginal wheels, unoriginal interior (seats, door panels, steering wheel, etc.) unoriginal bumpers (front and rear), unoriginal duck tail lid, unoriginal engine, unoriginal muffler,even. OK, it's had a nice paint job, and it really looks super cool, but you can buy an original driver condition 911S for that money. Don't get me wrong. I have a 1972 911T that's all original and will eventually have stripped and repainted nicely, so I really, really like the idea of $40k-$45k for this car. However, I would have valued it at around $18k to $22k. If 911Ts are worth that much, I'm going to buy every one I can find at a lower price! Am I missing something?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

beautiful car! the pluses are clearly laid out by others.

if I were a buyer, here are the minuses I'd consider:

fiberglass hood and fenders. glass bumpers and duck are easy to swallow given the Gulf livery, but I'd want steel fenders and hood. why hood pins?

Base engine in race car body

Polished wheels. Gulf + polished is a mish mash of period style and modern bling

Rear flares. probably just my eye, but they look a little odd, flare looks too abrupt

Panel fit. Not keen on the front bumper fit (first pic) the duck fit (second pic) and driver side rear lens looks pretty far out (last pic)

I think $25 is a good start. With metal fenders and hood and RSR anodized wheels, I think $30. With an RS spec 2.7 with PMOs (and your freshened 901) $40K.

I hope you don't take my comments as too negative, it's really a beautiful car!

[tcar]

Think he said the 901 tranny was rebuilt.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

thanks, made the edit.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by M491Cabriolet

Sorry guys...I don't understand the values you are quoting. ..... unoriginal ..... Am I missing something?

Some people don't care about originality. I'm one of them, as my long-hood has a 3.2 stuffed in the back. I would much rather drive my hot rod than a 1973 with the whimpy little 2.4 it had when it left Germany.

This appears to be an attractively put together car, done with high quality. While any deviations from stock are a personal preference, this one seems to turn a lot of heads.

[kenikh]

Originally Posted by M491Cabriolet

Sorry guys...I don't understand the values you are quoting. Cool car, no doubt. I like it and would like to own it, but this is a 911T that is not original in most ways, as I understand it. How can it possibly be worth that kind of clink? It has unoriginal paint, unoriginal wheels, unoriginal interior (seats, door panels, steering wheel, etc.) unoriginal bumpers (front and rear), unoriginal duck tail lid, unoriginal engine, unoriginal muffler,even. OK, it's had a nice paint job, and it really looks super cool, but you can buy an original driver condition 911S for that money. Don't get me wrong. I have a 1972 911T that's all original and will eventually have stripped and repainted nicely, so I really, really like the idea of $40k-$45k for this car. However, I would have valued it at around $18k to $22k. If 911Ts are worth that much, I'm going to buy every one I can find at a lower price! Am I missing something?

The market has moved on, especially on dialed hot rodslike this one. There have been way too many hot rods, some not as nice as this, that have gotten just a little south of $40K. Plus, I haven't seen a driver 'S' get less than high 40s in quite a while. Matter of fact, I have seen too many basket case Esses sell around the $30K mark for my confort in the last year. Your car as a T driver is probably close to what you stated, but with a car that is functionally new, presents like a true hot rod, etc, $35K is pretty much dead nuts.

[tijnes]

Threads like this I show my wife.

Here's another one that I quote from on occasion.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14010


Martijn

[alexARC]

The market is different here in Europe.

You couldn't sell a T for 40.000$. The more original is the car, the higher is the value here (which means metal fenders,, lid, interior and more important, engine).

I like your exhaust, which model is it?

20-25 seems a fair price (maybe 30k$)
It also depends of few things like "gearbox rebuilt". Which parts did you replace in the gearbox (rebuild means a lot of different things from one person to another...)

[Macroni]

I have 2 cars; 1 80% complete and 1 20% complete. I am not a DIYer. I repair w/ my checkbook. Sad and embarrassing, but true.

To purchase a lightweight well sorted long hood R for $35,000 that is close to 95% complete is relatively inexpensive. It is the originality and components as well as build quality that moves the value needle from that point forward.

Personally, I think a well built 150-160hp 2.0 or 2.2 is almost as desirable today as the 3.7 in the ex- Jeff Smith car.

Could this car be worth $15,000? Yes, but it could also be worth considerably more. The building of an "R" type is not cheap even with the mad DIY skills of Lars "speedo" or Chris the welding dentist of excellence magazine.

Sam,
What does your R weigh?

[M491Cabriolet]

Yeah, I guess different people value different things. I don't think the market has moved on as much as maybe there is a new market. To me, originality is the first important factor. I also am heavily into vintage guitars. New machine heads and hot noiseless pickups are really cool, and far better than they could ever have been in 1957 or 1962, but to have a refinished 1962 Fender Stratocaster with swapped out tuning pegs and new pickups more than halves the value of the guitar. Forget it altogether if the wood or finish has been touched. In the 1980s, people used to hack up guitars that today (with all of their warts and suerceded technology) are worth $50,000 or six times that. At the time, they thought they were improving them. Today, collectors look at those poor, hacked up guitars as not worth collecting. Could it be that in 10 years, once everyone is done hacking up their original 911Ts, the only remaining fully original survivors are going to be worth a whole lot more because they will have become very rare? I would guess so. That's why--to me--the preservation of originality is the first thing one should strive to do with vintage cars and vintage guitars. Just my personal feelings. I don't intend to disagree, insult or offend anyone. Thanks.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by M491Cabriolet

Yeah, I guess different people value different things. I don't think the market has moved on as much as maybe there is a new market. To me, originality is the first important factor.

I don't intend to disagree, insult or offend anyone. Thanks.

First, you are hardly insulting and have added to a compelling discussion of what appears to be a very nice car.

I agree originality, ultimately brings the big dollars in. Last week, a 44,000 mile 1973 E was placed on the market for $90,000. Another E is for sale at $125,000. Last year, four 1967S Softies sold for over $120,000, the high car a low mileage non-restored original was $150,000 [cheap given the recent run up of pricing], a fifth a non-matching number softie sold for $80,000 and a rusted out softie in need of total restoration just sold for $35,000.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140242565322

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Sam 69 Gulf

Thanks for all the feedback. My thoughts were also in the $20 - $25K range but if any of you $50Kers want to cut a check! Seriously though - thanks!

As for 2.0 vs. 2.2 I cannot comment as i have only ever driven the 2.2l in this car. I will say though that the car LOOKS fast as hell and I have worked really hard to master the “I am too secure to need to race you’ look when the WRX / minivan or cement trucks pull up along side at the lights. (for good reason) Yep, its fun and very chuckable in the hills but sloooowww

Sam

I think your original thoughts are spot on Sam.. it's a beautiful car!

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by M491Cabriolet

That's why--to me--the preservation of originality is the first thing one should strive to do with vintage cars

Since I bought mine at an auction after an engine fire, and saved it from the scrapyard, I'm going to enjoy driving the snot out of the hooliganized long-hood.

If the factory made a 2200 pound car powered by a 3.2 and short gears, I'd have been happy to keep it original.

If I was shopping today, I would be looking for performance over originality.

Of course, if Hester was in my garage, I wouldn't touch a thing. It would sit in the garage, while I drive the hooligan.