best way to get to this to replace?
 

The ball part of the ball/socket joint on the lever arm under the throttle body came loose and that section of linkage was lost.
What's the best way to access this to replace the lever arm?

Well, let's see...you start by removing the Frammis Drive, then you have to disconnect the Thermodiscular valve, after which...

What Peter is trying to say is it would help if we knew more about the car.... year, modifications, etc.

A picture would help also.

OK, OK, I guess I need to do better at 'splaining:

this gizmo busted on my '87 Cab; here's the history:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217974056.jpg

note the excellent temporary craftsmanship what kept me going.............

the hooha with the coathanger in it used to have a ball mounted in that hole, and was part of a ball&socket piece of the throttle linkage. It is stuffed towards the firewall and is under the throttle body.

It seems like you can't get there from here.
Anybody know the best way to get at the piece (shaft and lever) to replace it?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/pint1.gif

You can buy the parts here, it's part of the bell crank. http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait= N&make=POR&model=911M&section=Pcable&page=5&bookma rk=11&part_number=911-423-017-02-OEM

I hate to say it John, but it's not too easy. I tried to fiddle with it in my car and finally waited until I did an engine drop. And my car has nothing in the way.

You could try by taking off the throttle body and see where that gets you. Be careful not to drop anything down the intake, please.

What year is your car, there seems to be a bunch of parts missing! I'm not quite sure what I'm seeing, but the other end of the shaft has a nut on it - undo that and pull the shaft out (or just remove the base (3x 8mm nuts) and fix it on the bench). I've seen carb kits that come with balls that are mounted on a small, threaded post, but I don't know if one of those would work for this application. Probably best to order a replacement shaft/linkage parts from the dealer.

FYI: My earlier smart-ass post was a tongue in cheek because the text of your post simply said "xx" with a "last edited" note - sorry!

Yeah, what he said.

I already have the parts; just gotta put them on. Not to worry re: xx--I was trying to get the pic added.........................

looks like to next move is take off the throttle body. Will it screw up the micro switch adjustments by taking it loose?
jd

got it off...............
 

the baseplate hooha is called the throttle console. It did not want to be removed,
but it's off. getting it out of the engine was also fun.
it's all downhill now!:rolleyes:

Glad to hear it worked out - on some cars, it's more difficult than others.

-Wayne

Root cause? Now, to put Humpty Dumpty Back......................
 

OK, here's what I found:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218033457.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218033490.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218033524.jpg

Looks bent.
What could have caused this? Apparently enough force to pull the peened ball out of its hole.........
could it have been that big roll of duct tape stuck to the bottom?

root cause analysis................
 

Ask "WHY?" to each answer at least 4 times....................
car stopped.
why?
linkage came loose.
why?
part broken.
why?
ball came off.
why?
came loose/bent in housing/pulled off.
why?
closer look at busted part and it's replacement..........looks like a rivet joint/thought it was peened....... get this; replacement was also loose and spins in it's hole! tried peening, iffy; didn't hold solid (made to spin?) not likely;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218036528.jpg

• Kraut thought process; "this is the way we've always done it."
• passed test process.
• weakened over time.
• process hardened. (constant motion back and forth).
• loosened over time.

Ockham's Razor--simplest explanation most likely.
works loose over time.

what's the fix?

• make it unable to come loose over time.
• adjust linkage so full deflection of pedal will not put "bending" torque on lever

how?

• weld or braise the somebench, then anneal it to lessen brittleness.
• correctly adjust throttle linkage

I'm off to the local welder..................

Lessons?

• make sure throttle linkage is correctly adjusted (still could happen due to constant back/forth) causing part to work loose
• Is there possibly a bolt-on replacement for the ball using a tight-grip bolt? The ball could be replaced (though with some difficultly) with much less effort than having to remove the whole base and pivot arm.

.......................a prodigious panoply of pernicious possibilities and permutations..........I'm going to drink a Guinness http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/pint1.gif

Brorag,
After several "heading to local welders", I searched and decide to get a small welding machine. Very worthy and convenience.

:D :D :D I was thinking what are all these parts. :lol:

Borag,

Mine does not spin and is not loose at all... I think you gots another bum part.

Also, while you're in there, replace the throttle plate bushings. Mine crumbled in my hands. Cheap too. 901-423-253-00-M260 in the pp catalog.

Best regards,

Michael

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

minimum job cost to weld--$25
bushings ordered--got bronze--another week ~$10
replacement could have been twisted--done on engine removal? Doesn't matter: I've got a $25 weld holding it!
Hot here--and I could be up on the Blue Ridge Parkway--15 mi away.
More Guinnesshttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/pint1.gif

I wonder if that big clod-hopper you call a right foot had anything to do with this?

Heavy foot shouldn't matter. Throttle pedal stop (the plastic tab on the back of the gas pedal)prevents you from over-stressing the throttle linkage- assuming your linkage is properly adjusted!

The bellcrank could have been bent by a previous hack like me. I had a heck of a time getting the throttle rod socket to release from the ball on a number of cars. Sometimes the socket gets so full of crud that the ball doesn't want to come out. And I don't think the brass bushings for the shaft are a must-have. The plastic ones wear out in 20 years. Put some new plastic ones in there and i'm sure they'll last 20 more?

I do wear a size 15...........................
Pelican had the bronze bushings for about the same $$

Just my 2-cents worth; I do not use, or recommend, bronze bushings - there's a reason why Porsche never switched to them, and the reason ain't money!

That said, before you assemble the linkage to the ball put a thin smear of high-quality grease (I like Kendall lithium grease, or amber disc brake wheel bearing grease the best) inside the ball cup - that way you'll be able to disconnect it the next time that things have to be removed.

Oh, the loose ball, that's very unusual - definitely got past quality control during a bathroom break!

Kevin has a good point. Make sure the gas pedal stop is in place, and adjusted properly.

where's my part? I ordered it yesterday..................................
I gotta say that rebushing the bell housing lever eliminated a known sticky location. I packed the space between the 2 bushings with grease; slicker than owl poop...........
part still not here.......................
wifes been after me for 18 mos to clean the shop. guess I'll waste some time doing that.
part still not here..................

You never did answer the question you posetd. How do you access the part? Did you have to remove the intake? How did you get the thing off?

how I got the part out.
 

I'll reference the Parts list on pelican for clarity, as well as a marked up photo of my engine compartment:

reference illustration 108-10 in the '87 Porsche parts diagram.
remove the hot air manifold, (dwg# 13 part# 930 211 341 03) by loosening bolt
(dwg 15, part N 10 205 6), and hose clamp (dwg 18, part 999 512 200 02).


reference illustration 107-00 in the '87 Porsche parts diagram.

remove air box (dwg 21, part# 930 110 356 02) by loosening clamps (dwg # 22 & 23).
position air box above the mass air flow box to keep it out of the way. remove as fwe hoses as possible to avoid later confusion.

gotta go--I'll finish later tonight or tomorrow.

And what, pray tell, is that reason?

ianc

1. re: illustration 108-10 in the '87 Porsche parts diagram.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218217161.jpg
remove the hot air manifold, (dwg# 13 part# 930 211 341 03) by loosening bolt
(dwg 15, part N 10 205 6), and hose clamp (dwg 18, part 999 512 200 02).

2. re: illustration 107-00 in the '87 Porsche parts diagram.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218217295.jpg
remove air box (dwg 21, part# 930 110 356 02) by loosening clamps (dwg # 22 & 23).

3. loosen clamp and remove this hose.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218218282.jpg

4. position air box above or behind the mass air flow box to keep it out of the way. remove as few hoses as possible to avoid later confusion.


next reply.......................

Remove the throttle body next.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218230747.jpg

It is attached by 4 screws, one at each corner.
You will have to remove 2 hoses from the back side; one is small, close to the bottom and splits at a "y" within 2" of the throttle body.
the other is a larger pipe, ~1/4", and was located above the other.

remove the lock washer holding the throttle linkage (called a pull rod in the drawing) to the throttle body, and put it where it won't get lost. Remove the throttle linkage from throttle body.

Carefully raise the throttle body, and slip something between the housing and intake manifold so nothing will fall into manifold.

Move the throttle body to one side and secure to allow access to the console through the space previously occupied by the throttle body.

4. Place a piece of clean (no lint/strings) material into intake manifold and tape over manifold opening to prevent any objects from entering.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218217938.jpg
If something drops into manifold, you are dead meat.


The console assy is this thing; this is what you are going to remove.......if it don't look like this, don't remove it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218229407.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218228330.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218228387.jpg


Another watchout is the alignment of the lever marked by the arrow below. This is a pic taken prior to it's removal. The top of the lever is in the shadows, so you can't see it. Make sure that both levers roughly parallel each other lever when reinstalling it. It is possible to put it on backwards, and you don't want to find out that after reinstalling it console!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218228678.jpg


Access points to the console are shown below. the top access point is where the tools go and remove the console assy.
The left access point is for lighting and viewing. It's too small to get tools through or to remove console.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218233310.jpg


This is the perfect time to conscript a pair of small hands, (dwarf, kid, wife) who will do as told. If you or your hands are of a smaller size, this is the time to celebrate the fact you've got one over on all us knuckle draggers. It is very tight, like reaching that bottom back clamp on the air filter box, except worse.
More Guinness.

There are 3 nuts holding the console in place. Mine were 13mm. I got at them through the top space. Use a skinny light toward the back to see what's going on.

Have a magnet or grip type flexible retriever handy--you'll need it to remove nuts and washers after loosening.

Two springs are also attached. Remove on console side.

There is also a brace for ~3 horizontal tubes/hoses; it must be moved, as it shares on of the bolts with the console. Of course the brace is on top of the console, sandwiching the console between it and the engine. But, of course, "these cars never break down". But I digress...............

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218229656.jpg

You'll have to move the brace without moving the pipe/hoses attached to it. I used a pair of needlenosed pliers and put an "S" in the brace, then was able to slide it off the stud. Once off you can move the brace out of the way. The "nut" on the brace is part of the brace; the screw through the nut is toward the firewall;I could feel it but couldn't get it off. Be careful with the black round plastic hooha with the wire hanging out of its top; it looks expensive...........

The console can now be removed through the top hole. You will have to try all kinds of combinations of twists and turns to get it out; don't force it. I guarentee that the last position you try will get it out.....................:D

rebuild the consule assy by removing the nut at one end of the pivot shaft, sliding out the shaft, and replacing the bushings. The bushing are the same ones used at the bell housing. Remember to align the two levers properly. In my case, I'm also replacing the shaft and pivot arm because of the missing ball.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218234574.jpg

Re-assemble by reversing this procedure. Take your time. If you get fed up (and you will) walk away and come back later. It's amazing how many times I've done that and the fix came much more easily.


If you see stuff missing, or mistakes, tell me and I'll fix it.
Brorag

bushing replacement
 

I recv'd bushings today. I removed old bushings and discovered they were metal--I swear they looked like babbit bearing material.........soft metal.
The replacement bronze bushing O.D. was too large, so I drilled the console openings to fit--started with small drills and worked larger till I was able to fit the replacements--to be safe I also epoxyed them in place.

A word of caution. You absolutely must assemble all the linkage, except the piece attached to the throttle body, before replacing the throttle body and the hose to the air sensor! Ask me how I know. If you forget, you will have tho take it off to get to the linkages................

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up

Just curious, since I'm reinstalling this part on my '88 rebuild...what is the second/slightly "higher" lever bolt positioning for? It appears to be unused as far as I can tell. I see this part is for the 930 as well so is that where you'd put the lever pivot bolt in a 930? I was stressing out last night thinking I'd lost a part but I really don't recall anything being there but it was a long time ago when I took it apart. Great pics on this thread for the process.

there is only one shaft. the other boss could be used for a different engine--if a common part between 911 and 930 it prob. accomodates a different pivot shaft.

Maybe the other is used for the cruise control linkage and return springs???

nope, not on mine.
cruise hooks to the top of the lever at the throttle body.

That's ruight- nothing to do with cruise control or throttle return springs. The return springs connect to the bellcrank arm at one end and to the underside of the intake mainfold, on a coulple of cast-in tabs. Cruise control linkage is just one bowden cable that goes from the cruise unit to a bracket attached to the throttle body.