Alternator R+R difficulty-3.0
 

Right up front, I admit to being a lousy mechanic. I am in awe of some of these threads which ramble on about rebuilding non-spec engines and slipping them into other hulks. I do not for a moment consider these feats within my capacity.

Alternator went belly up (1979 SC euro 3.0). Talented Porsche specialist chased up a guaranteed voltage regulator built in Alternator ($325 the "brother in law price) and whilst bombarding me with tales of tremendous difficulty also quoted me $300plus labor to install.

I have no business with a car (much less TWO!) which require either big bucks or expertise beyond my scope to keep up and going.

While participating in a local P-car run thru the woods, I bemoaned my demotion to a 15 year old Saturn and my lack of $600+ to replace the alternator.
"AHHA!" said one of my newfound friends...'I HAVE a 79 alternator which I had rebuilt a few years back which I no longer need...fresh...$100...and it is a breeze to install..why last time it took me about 30 minutes."

Got alternator complete with notes which color wires to which post, and it checked out with flying colors at local Gen-Alt shop.

I was inspired. I shot off 30 odd clams to Pelican and got back "101 projects 911" which includes r+r OF AN ALTERNATOR, COMPLETE WITH PICTURES.
Even a ham-handed near sighted pot bellied untalented wrench should be able to whip this out . (Two little guys difficulty and 4 hours)

YES! I can DO this.

Rather quickly disconnected battery, removed various bolts, COIL clamp, belt, and by wedging my fat paws into the innards, removed all 6 nuts holding on the air divert er thingy....unloosened all the leads (after taking pics for reattachment)

Now I find myself unable to scoot the air divert er thingy over an inch or so forward, and don't seem to be able to arrange for any sort of open arrangement like pic #3 page 62.

hAVE READ AND RE-READ but suspect even if all disconnected I shall not easily remove fan/housing/airthingya from mysterious P-innards.

I WANT to do this. I dread dragging my shameface into spotless P-guys garage and explaining why I have someone Else's alternator and would he puhleeez install it.
Consensus is that this is NOT difficult, and shop was charging arm and leg.
As I nurse my skinned areas, the price is seeming less outrageous.

Help! What simple action am I overlooking? Overcome your chortles and help get me out of this Saturn...the headliner is flapping in front of my face and I am getting a lot of "Where is your PORCH, Dick?"

It's Arkansas, 2 syllables - Por-sha- marks one as effete and pretentious. I retaliate by referring to their FOR Mutan s and cHEV Camar s and vOL-wAGS.
sO FAR, IT HASN'T SUNK IN.

From what you wrote it sounds like you already disconnected the wiring on the back of the alternator and also separated the plastic air diverter? If so, the fan housing and alternator should come right out.

This is a tough job if you haven't been in there before. If you've come as far as you say, the fan housing/fan/alternator should simply lift forward and up and away from the engine. The air guide/diverter stays behind, or remove and clean it after you've lifted the fan housing unit out.

Oh, yeah, speaking of alternators.

Brian

Changing an alternator is one of those stories mechanics dream up to scare you . . . like the guy who said that his valve adjustment cost $500 because "the tolerances are to the thousandth of an inch!" Wonder what the tolerance of his brain was.

Anyway, your problem is that you haven't removed the fan housing strap. It holds the alternator in the vertical position and MUST be removed, there's no way to slide the alternator out with it still in place.

So carefully loosen the bolt (s) holding the fan strap and watch out, it will spring up when it comes loose. That will then allow you to angle the top of the fan housing toward the rear of the car, and create precious room to remove the cables from the back.

As Warren wrote (may he rest in Peace) there are FOUR, count them, FOUR connections on the back of the alternator: these are:

B+ Battery positive big red wires
D- Ground, brown wires AND a braided ground strap to the top of the engine;
D+/61 small blue wire, the warning lamp circuit; and
DF Dynamo field, which furnishes current to the brushes from the external VR.

Make sure you have ALL of those nuts removed from the back of the alternator. Do NOT drop them in the alternator or down on the cooling fins. If you do, there's another German-made tool that can help:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219162557.jpg

Best money I ever spent was on a Stahlwille magnetic pickup.

Anyway, once the connections are loose, the wires pull out from the back of the fiberglass air diverter and the entire assembly, fan, alternator and housing, can be (carefully) removed from the back of the car.

Ever look at a used Porsche and see big dents and scratches on the engine lid slam panel? Those are the tracks of the ham-fisted alternator remover! Use a towel or something so you don't drop it on the panel.

Installation, as they say in the British car manuals. . . . is the reverse of removal.

Avoid, both professionally and personally, anyone who tells you that an internal voltage regulator is a good idea. It is not, was not, cannot be. HEAT is the enemy of electronic components and situating the VR two inches from the engine case! Must have come up with that innovation after lunch!

Huh? I just did this job and didn't remove the fan housing strap. I unbolted it, but left it in place.

Brian

I separated the housing strap, removed all the small nuts holding air thingy. The air thingy now moves about an inch away from alt. base..one side at a time.
I have all nuts holding wires on back of alternator loosened but NOT removed including large ground . I had not totally loosened the connections as it did not appear that when I DID the fan-alternator-housing would clear, and I was loath to get all undone in poor visability with the prospect of reattaching in equally tight conditions.
So far, only dropped into the black hole items is a small 10mm socket, which I can eyeball and retrieve when Alt is removed....

I shall summon up courage and disconnect completely. (I was never able to leave the doorway skydiving either;-)

Regarding "built-in" voltage regulator. That is what I now have. BOth high dollar, white lab coated , Germanic accented mechanic...and alternator provider cliamed benefits of built in...(I agree this flys in the face of obvious heat problems.)

Presuming I am able to R+R alternator, what is going to be required to dump the Volt. Reg. over on the fender?

BTW: The same Nazi wrench quoted $500+ for a valve adjustment /oil change, and even with my severly limited skills, these are both things I have managed without degree in rocket science.

That's the challenge, but it's not that bad once you understand what has to happen. As John advises, be careful handling the nuts and the wavy washers so they don't get dropped into never-never land.

Brian

Y'all have inspired me! It is cool out, my blood sugar is acceptable, and I (once again) feel this is something I can just whip out.

One question;

B+ Battery positive big red wires
D- Ground, brown wires AND a braided ground strap to the top of the engine;
D+/61 small blue wire, the warning lamp circuit; and
DF Dynamo field, which furnishes current to the brushes from the external VR.

What wiring changes will be necessary to couple external voltage regulator vehicle to newly installed ALT w/built in V-regulator.?

Halt! Ein minuten bitte.

You claim that your car is a '79 Euro SC and yet has an internal voltage regulator? Zees does not make sanse! The Factory did not convert to internal reg until 1982. This has all the hallmarks of . . . .

. . . a Dumb Prior Owner ("DPO"). If your newfound friend gave you an alt from a 79, IT should not have an internal regulator, either!

So let me ask you directly: Do you now, or have you ever had, in your possession a Paris-Rhone alternator with FOUR terminals on the back?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/P8200113.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/P8200116.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...e/P8200114.jpg

Here is the little charred chunks dug from innards which WAS on old alternator
old alternator with ground, three posts and a blade post
new alternator with three posts.

The hulk IS a 1979 SC euro. It has an external voltage regulator. I am hoping to replace with an alaternator with an internal volt. regulator.

PO a whale of a lot less dumb than I am. It has been fiddled with , adjusted, hopped and sorted out competently I think..(It is the speediest 3.0 I have ever consorted with.)

Am I gonna have to throw myself onto the mercies of the TEUTONIC gouge master?

Now that I am basking in pride at having removed the sucker, I find that the "alternator should slide out ofthe housing when tapped with a soft hammer." Assume gentle taps on 6 studs, evenly, will cause this to happen???

A competent alternator/electrical shop might be able to repair your old unit.

Use blocks of wood to support the outer housing and a hammer and drift around the alternator (on solid spots) to free the alternator from the housing. Some PB Blaster or the like sprayed around the inside circumference of the fan housing helps.

On this ...
... hopefully others will have answers for you if you proceed to converting from external to internal regulation.

Both of my SCs have internal regulators. Stay with it and nevah pay the Teutonic tax. ;)

Oh, and don't forget what Rick told Ilsa in "Casablanca": "We'll always have Paris-Rhone."

Brian

Hmm. . . a small test. What is the distance from the flat surface where the alternator touches the housing to the end of the bolt?

I would be willing to hazard that the replacment alternator you have is NOT the same depth. Over the years the factory changed the depth as the alt went from 55A to 75A to 90A and the alternators changed along with them. If you insist on installing the I-R version, be damn certain the fan fits within the housing-- usually the fan blades protrude toward the rear of the car by about 25mm.

So you want to be back in there when the Internal regulator fails, huh? Admit it, you actually LIKE taking these things apart! OK. Don't say I didn't warn you.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219185792.jpg

You simply disconnect the external regulator and tape over the DF (black) wire and make sure it doesn't lay on the (hot!) engine. There, you have successfully eliminated the External Regulator (which was good enough for the 917!)

Let me tell you, I used to have an internally regulated alternator (Carrera 1260W with a 930-5R housing) in my race car. . . it worked ok until one race at Gingerman in the summertime, in which it decided to stop working due to the heat. Do you know how upsetting it is to come in from a practice session at a race you spent $3,000 to get to, only to realize that the BELT is not broken, the freaking INTERNAL VR has decided to throw up its hands due to the heat?

I converted BACK to external and have had absolutely no problems since.

Hey John...GOOD STUFF!
gotta go work but will re-enter the fray after tomorrow...thanx for the good info.
dp

good luck Dick! Hope you have the Canary back together before Palooza!;)

Oh all right. . . if you INSIST on jumping off the cliff, here is the SECOND page of the tech bulletin (you DID notice that the first page didn't actually tell you anything, right? :)



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1219241240.jpg

Proceeding slowly and cautiously. FINALLY managed to remove alternator from housing. Now letting fan soak up some slickum prior to expert evaluation on possibility of repair.

Update: Took the ten ton press to break everything loose. I gained great confidence in getting all removed and unbroken...However, apparently the original alternator was fine..now suspect faulty / broken lead wire.
Can't wait to dribble some of those little washers down into the waiting maw.
(Anyone need a freshly rebuilt alternator (internal voltage regulator?)