yet another newbie...
 

so i been building rotary cars for a while and i have always been interested in porsches. but i dont know much about them. i been reading all over the internet. but i get confused by all the versions. like a 911 and 930 are the same but not. and a million other numbers. how can i break these down and know the difference.

im looking to buy a mid 80's 911. or what i think is a 911. and make it look like a 911 turbo (930???) and later down the road put the power into it. im looking to spend 10-15k for a decent shape 911. is that around where i should be looking to spend?

whats the reliability of porsche motors? street driving and heavy abuse? (with proper maintenence) can you swap other porsche motors in? turbo motor/tranny into NA body. newer porsche motors, ect. ect...

what are some things i should look for?

thanks!!! sorry for the first big post...

Welcome to the board, sen2two. What you ask is possible (engine swaps, turbo looks, etc.) but it's all a matter of how much $$ or skill you have. I've found the transition to Porsches to be quite a final one, as the engineering and overall quality of the cars are top-notch (water-cooled engines aside). I've even managed to get over the fact that once you buy a Porsche you're automatically labeled as a "rich jerk".

If you're looking for a project, I would suggest figuring out what your final product will be and seeing what model would best serve as a starting point. Root around this site for awhile and you'll start to figure out the nomenclatures Porsche used for the 911 over the years.

Welcome! Please add your location to your profile so we know where you are. Use the search button- all your questions have been discussed at length- and the 'golden rule' is to get an independent Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI) on any car before you buy it.

Good luck!

Paul.

If you want a break down between all the different models and what not best get a book called "the used 911 story" by a Pete Zimmerman. It's dirt cheap and will give you a lot and a lot of useful info.

+1 on Peter Zimmerman's "The Used 911 Story"! Also, Bruce Anderson's (not Henderson's) 911 Performance Handbook has a section on buying a used 911. I found both indispensible in my search!

Between these 2 books and these forums, I was able to get enough info to go from a girly zero-in-knowledge to shopping, test driving & buying my own 1988 911 in about 8 weeks flat! Even being in AL and locating, checking out and buying a car 650 miles away in Houston, TX. I got an awesome car for an awesome price, even with the travel expenses & expensive pre-purchase inspection (PPI) included.

There are lots of dud cars out there with hidden problems, lots of rip-off artists, and lots of well-meaning sellers who have no clue about their own cars and what might be going on under the hood. So a thorough pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic who does NOT know the car is a must. In my situation, the PPI was so thorough, I had NO surprises when I got to Houston to see my car. Can't recommend a good PPI enough.

If you already know cars, you're miles ahead of me. Still, there are things particular to Porsches, particular to the era you're looking at that you might never divine for yourself, so the books noted and this forum are excellent help in making your way through all the details & potential pitfalls.

Once you start to locate cars you want to look at, local folks from here are often happy to help you check things out. Or if you find a car far away, Pelicans in that area will often step up to help. If, like me, you can't find any Pelicans near the car you want to check out, try the local Porsche Club of America wherever the car is. I found the Peach State (Georgia), Alabama and Lone Star (Tx) PCA folks all to be super helpful, bent over backward to hook me up with mechanics & other local info.

As for your price range & modification plans, and as for figuring out the "number soup" of which 911 is what, definitely read the books! There's years of history behind the #s, a bit much to lay out here.

Good luck, happy shopping, and please post pictures along the way!

Welcome!
Kathy

thanks for the great answers!!!

im a pretty good mechanic. and getting better and fabbing. and im going to get some of those books. but if i could get a few things answered before the books get to me...

how many different engines came in the 84-89 911?

HP?
weight?
how reliable are these cars?
can the motors take a beating? (like honda)
compression ratios?
are they all air cooled to what year? is air cooled better in porsche motors?
all carbed? or fuel injected?

is there somewhere this info is listed? i found a site where all this is listed for the 944. hopefully theres something similar for the 911.

could i get a few links for aftermarket parts? cosmetic and performance? this will help me set my looks/power goal. budget and get a general idea wich model i would like the outcome to be.

You might want to start by digging around on this site. The tech articles section will answer many of your questions. Start there.

Then...

For a general overview, go to wikipedia.org and type in "porsche 911."

Edmunds also has a decent overview, with links to specs for many models.

thanks! great links...

i'll start reading everything like a mad man now, lol...

Welcome! Also see here: http://www.101projects.com

-Wayne

I'm so glad Wayne is not the shy type!

Me, I'm just a little red-faced at not mentioning our host's book :o

I have this book & use it often - mostly looking at the great PICTURES to figure out what is what in my car . Most of the projects are still over my head (except the car washing project, I've done that one several times), but this book has sure helped me to get acquainted & understand how things work within my current limits.

Sen2 - it will be right up your alley for most of the tweaks & mods you want to do. Plus he has a whole separate engine rebuilding book, too.

So yeah, what he said! +1 on Wayne's 101 Projects book!

well, i been look furiously through the internet for cars. i came across a few "rollers" ( no motor/trans) sometimes missing things like fenders, hood, deck lid, ect. there fairly priced. and since i plan on modding mine, this seems like a good idea to me. but i looked on here and seen its about 1-2k for just one fender!!! WOW!!! i knew making the jump from Mazda to Porsche would bump up the price of parts, but damn... that just dosnt seem right? is this what i should expect to pay for stock body parts? are there aftermarket parts for less/more? what about finding a decent motor/tranny...what should i expect to pay?

Hi, I would recommend you to buy the car you want straight away. If you want a wide body car, then buy one! If you want a turbo, then find one! If you start with a car that needs a lot of work, you will end up with much time and money spent. Much better to find a good, straight car first time around. AND ENJOY - straight away!:cool:

These are tough cars, you mention Honda engines, how many Hondas lasts more than 15-20 years:eek:... Yes, I thought so... How many of the cars on this forum is thirty years and more?:D Yes, a lot of them... So yes, they are built though. My car is a 1975 and of course it runs better than ever!

Join a local Porsche-club before you buy a car, that will supply you with information and possibly help trace YOUR car.:D

Original Porsche 911 by Peter Morgan is another great book for an overview of the models. i think its out of print but can bought used on Amazon. has great photos

15K should buy you a very fine SC. I agree with buying what you want from the start. if you want a turbo, save for a turbo. Ive seen a lot of widebody, turbo-look cars on the classified section of this site over the past year. much cheaper to buy one of those than to build one i suspect.

there is a ton of buyer-guide info on this site if you search as well as on the web. of course i discovered all of it after i bought my car

here is a thread that will give you an idea of what people pay for their cars
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/124123-how-much-did-you-buy-sell-your-911-a.html

That would be Bruce Anderson's '911 Performance HandBook'

Wayne also has another pretty good book ' How to Rebuild and Modify 911 Engines', though he needs to update it to include the engines used from '89 -98

The big hangup for t/ps is the transmission

thru '83 915 was used

from '84 G50 was used

G50 is a much more robust trans,

it is very difficult to use a g50 in an earlier car, it can be done but it's a lot of work compared to an engine swap.

swapping engines is relatively easy, all from '64 through '98 are interchangeable, some swaps are better and easier than others is all.

Actually, the G-50 was in the '87 through '89 cars. The 3.2 engine was from '84 onwards...

Cheers,

Paul.

yes, g50 from '87 up

Another good reference is

Porsche 911 Buyer's Guide by Randy Leffingwell, published by Motorbooks.

I picked up my copy at Barnes & Noble

I'll second the recommendation for Anderson's book. Wayne's book is good when you get the car. I think the BA book is better beforehand. It does a lot of the sorting out that you are looking for.

Being you are around the Orlando area, you should not have any trouble locating all types of P-cars there. Just finding the right one is going to be the trick. Good luck!! Tony.

As others have, I would suggest buying a complete widebody car to begin with. It is certainly cheaper to buy a complete car than it is to buy them in pieces. Although I do have to admit when you take into account the premiums paid for factory widebody coupes the jump to the real turbo is not all that great of a $$ leap.

When a widebody was done by the factory they came with the turbo's suspension and braking system.

Here is a list of the non-turbo engines used from 1974 to 1989:
1974 - 1977 used a 2.7L engine with a continuos injection system (CIS)

1978 - 1983 used a 3.0L engine with a continuos injection system (CIS)

1984 - 1989 used a 3.2L engine with a DME controlled injection system
84-86 engines had 204 HP
87 - 89 engines had 217 HP

That is a basic list. There were some exceptions like the 3.oL Carreras that came out in mid to late 70's. Also keep in mind the engines did evolve over the years. Mostly to further adapt to growing enviromental regulations. Although a 1978 3.0L engine is 95% the same as a 1983 3.0L engine, there will be some notable changes. The newer engines for example will use an 02 sensor.

All the engines are swappable. For example you can put a 1989 3.2L into a 1977 "mid year" 911.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/marcesq1/

You can get fenders cheaper than 1000 a piece. If you want to keep the steel check the classifieds here to find decent deals. Or there are numerous fiberglass suppliers. gt-racing.com, getty design, A.I.R. . . . Do a search and you'll be able to find them all.

Expect to pay 1500 for a decent used tranny on the classifieds here. If you are going to turbo charge the car look for a 1978 or later 915 transmission as they were aluminum cased. The earlier transmissions were all magnesium cased.

The price of the engine depends on what engine you go with. I would steer you away from the 1974 - 1977 2.7L engines, and tell you to look for a 3.0 or 3.2L engine. For an engine with good compression and leakdown #'s I'd expect to pay between a low of 5K to a high of 7.5K depending on condition, etc. You could also dump the turbo idea and just do a 3.6L upgrade.
http://www.instant-g.com/Products/36Conversion/index.html

Do a lot of reading before you decide which route to go. Each has its pro's and con's.

There is also a pelican in Florida who had a widebody coupe for sale some time ago.

I just bought on 86 last month and bought the best one I could afford in my range rebuilt recently. It is a daily driver in the color I wanted with the stuff I wanted.

Get the one you want to end up with. It will be worth putting your time and money into it and anything you add to get it right adds up. So get it all when you buy. Want the wide body, find it.

For example, upgrade to larger fuchs from whatever was on there..... $800-1200
Just needs brakes, rotors.... $600 plus plus.
Just needs new set of Beru wires...... $200
Just needs a whale tail..... $800
Just needs a Wong Chip..... $350
Just needs a paint job...... $6000
Just needs a top end after 150,000 ..... $3000-5000

Forget the exact figures but you can see it may be better to pay $3-5000 more for the car of your dreams all done loaded with all the right stuff.
That is the biggest hint I can share I am glad I did.

im narrowing down the porsches that i like the best. but there is still much research needed by me.

im leaning towards the 1990 C4. or a late 80's 930.

the appeal of the all wheel drive from the C4 makes me want that one. and on edmunds its listed to be worth 10-14k in good condition. but the 930 has the classic sports/super car look and feel to it.

we'll see what i lean towards when i become more informed. im just not use to being a newbie... SmileWavy

Welcome to the group,..you're in the right place for sure.

Best,

Doyle

Sen2two,

Considering the stats on your RX's you are no stranger to paying for performance. Given that, I would bet the Turbo would better suit your tastes and appetite for horsepower.

Call the local Porsche Club (Citrus Region info is on the Porsche Club of America Web Site). The PCA officers can be a big help. They know who you should talk to for a PPI and may already know of a good car that is available.

I would avoid '89 -94AWD 964 models, the AWD while great when new, is full of expensive components that will eventually need to be replaced, sometimes sooner than later

Later models from '95 up used a much simpler, lighter and better performing system

+1 on contacting your friendly local PCA President and showing up as a guest at the next meeting. I invite non-members to our meetings all the time. You will usually get to see many different years up close and personal. Also, you can get an idea of the +/- on each car. For instance, if you like the nimble feel of your RX7, you may want an earlier 911...