16 inch vs. 17 inch wheels

[jonbot]

I searched through the forums, but couldn't find an exact answer to my question.

This is aimed towards those of you out there that have had experience driving 911's with 16" wheels, and ones with 17" wheels. I'm considering replacing the wheels on my car (currently 16" low profile), and I've been told that I would want to go with a 17" wheel because I'll have more tire choices when I start getting in to the wider wheel sizes such as 9" and 9.5". This is fine as I like the look of the larger wheels, however, I'm concerned that a larger diameter will transmit more road noise in my car. I use my car as a daily driver, so if the larger wheels are aimed more towards looks rather than performance and driveability, I may instead look for stock 930 fuchs. What have been your experiences and impressions with driving Porsches equipped both kinds of wheels?

Thanks!


Jon

[Zeke]

Actually, there was a thread recently about the relative benefits to each. Anyone help this guy?

From my own perspective, I have to agree with you. The more "rubber band" the tires, the rougher and noisier the ride. Better tires do better. So, if you go down the 17 or 18 inch road, spend some money on a really good tire. That's my .02 only, of course.

[rusnak]

I think the air cooled 911s are so classic looking with the 16" wheels because the proportions are juuust right. Some cars like the Ferrari 308, and the 2000 Mustang GT/ Cobra should not be made into Fast and Furious cars.

In my own OPINION (just my $.02), putting 17, or 18, or heaven forbid, 19 inch wheels on a classic 911 will give it a bling-boy ricer look.

[jonbot]

Thanks milt for the tip, I do intend to purchase some nice tires for whatever rim I choose. Can you recommend any key words to search for in order to find that thread you are referring to?

Rusnak, I agree with what you say. The Fuchs design matches the air cooled 911's body shape perfectly. After all, they've used the same wheel design for many years. Any wheel changes would be done tastefully, they would be something like Rota Fox or Lindsey Racing wheels, something resembling Fuchs. I do like the way the 16" wheels that are on my car now ride, so ideally I'd like to stay with 16", but like I've been told, there's "more options available" if i jump up to 17". However I believe when you jump to 17", you have a lower profile tire, so that can transmit more road noise to the car. Another option I'm considering is getting some nice new tires for my current rims (because my tires are old), and powder coating the centers of my current BBS wheels black or silver.

[Zeke]

Here.

[jonbot]

Very interesting read, I didn't really even consider the gearing difference by running a "taller" tire, I've been more focused on the road noises. My car right now has plenty of power, I would hate to mess around with that. I'm not sure the width of the rims that are on my car now, but the tire specs are 205/55 ZR16 on front and 225/50 ZR16 on back, if someone decode the size of rims I currently have, please chime in. If they are 8"s and 9"s, then I'd be more inclined to just try and make what I've got right now work, and I could always swap my tires over to a set of 8x9 Fuchs in the future if I ran across a set.

[jhubs]

Originally Posted by jonbot

...I've been more focused on the road noises. My car right now has plenty of power, I would hate to mess around with that. I'm not sure the width of the rims that are on my car now, but the tire specs are 205/55 ZR16 on front and 225/50 ZR16 on back, if someone decode the size of rims I currently have, please chime in. If they are 8"s and 9"s, then I'd be more inclined to just try and make what I've got right now work, and I could always swap my tires over to a set of 8x9 Fuchs in the future if I ran across a set.

jonbot,
I ran the same size tires as you have above on my 6 and 7X16 Fuchs on my 87 911. They were Yoko Avid V4s. Nice tires and very stable...but noisy! From the size of your tires I would say that you probably have 6 and 7s but it's hard to say.
I purchased the new Rota Fuch 7.5 and 9X17" wheels and put on the Goodyear Eagle F1s with 215/45/ZR17s on the front and 255/40/ZR17s on the rear. One of the reasons I chose the Goodyear Eagle F1s was their low noise rating from Tire Rack.
And, I have noticed a big difference in reduced road noise. IMO, the road noise has more to do with the tires than the size of the wheels.

I will respectfully dissagree with an earlier post and tell you that the 17s look great on my 1987 911. I think that there are some older 911s that 17s would not look good on, but the 17s are fantastic looking on the mid to late 80s cars.

However, I will tell you that I did notice a slight change in starting tourque. I don't track my car and I am fairly new to P-cars, but the "seat of the pants" feel was that there is a slight difference.

One of my big concerns was the "ride" of the car on long trips as 17s give you less tire height and less cushion than 16s, but I have not noticed that to be true with these particular wheels and tires.

The width of the tires that one can put on these wider 7.5 and 9X17" wheels is the best part IMO. I can not believe the difference in traction when driving the curves. Colorado has a lot of opportunities for a day of twisties and these larger wheels wider tires are simply amazing!

My 87 is very low (below euro height) and that helps the look of the 17s also. I did have to roll the front wheel wells with the 215s.

[DRACO A5OG]

I was a bit annoyed when I got my baby with the 17's especially when I cut the driver rear tire after alignment job. I had to raise the rear an inch to insure no more cutting. Since that incident I rolled all the fenders to make sure it won't happen again. When I grow up from being a "Bling Boy Ricer" I will graduate to 16" Fuchs. But I'm going to paint the inner rims "marble grey to match

[rusnak]

Do the 17"s make you want to install A-pillar gauges and an Autometer tach?

[Bill Verburg]

I wouldn't be in the least concerned about noise or ride differences in going form 16 to 17. Modern tires are so good it's hard to get bad ones.

The differnce between the tires diameters is quite noticeable. I never did an analysius of 16 vs 17 but here are several relevent comparisons. Y axix show the thrust or push in the back obtained from each tire. Notice that in each case the amount of push is less and the whole curve is moved to a higher speed.

245/45 vs 255/50 x16


275/40 vs 265/35 x17, C3 w/ 3.6

[KTL]

Performance-wise, I don't think too many people would be disappointed with the ride quality of 17s. The ride quality is going to depend on what brand and level of performance you choose in a tire. Noise should not be a problem if the right tire is chosen. A more all-season oriented tire is going to provide better NVH management, but at the expense of ultimate performance. If one's car is strictly street driving at a concours-minded pace? Buy a good all-season tire.

Small comparison: Not too long ago, I had the choice of running three different sets of wheels-tires on my car:

16x6, 7 with 205/55, 225/50 Kumho MX tires
16x7, 8 with 205/55, 245/45 Yoko AVS ES100 tires.
17x7.5, 8.5 with 225/45, 255/40 Sumitomo HTRZ II tires.

The 17s were softer feeling and slow speed turning effort was actually less than either of the 16s.

Size availability is definitely a concern. I think the 205/55 and 225/50 tires will be around for a while since they're rather common fitment for a lot of cars still on the road these days. But the 245/45 size is slowly becoming a hard thing to find. 17s are everywhere.

I think the 17s provide the best appearance as far as sidewall height is concerned- not too thin, not too fat. The shorter sidewall provides the lower stance that these cars need to look more remotely competitive with today's cars. The 25" dia. 16 in. tires look too fat in my opinion. The early cars with the slim lines and narrow bodies look fine with the chubby tires. At the time when Porsche started putting on the side rockers and spoilers, the 16s became the norm and looked, performed fine. Then along came the 17s on the 964s and the purposeful look progressed along with the performance needs of the car. I think the 17s on the mid-late 70s through late 80s cars provide a nice compromise of sidewall height and do not present themselves as being overly large, which can also make brake components look undersized.

Time to go now. I need to shop for some bling gauges and an Autometer Sport Comp shift-lighted tach for my Mazda 6 WAGON, shod with factory 215/50 17's

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Do the 17"s make you want to install A-pillar gauges and an Autometer tach?

LOL, that was funny.

Actually, going to put some puke green lights under the body so I can really feel "Fast & Furious"

[MOMO3.2]

I do appreciate the fact that the Rota-Fox's offer tire options that are not available for the 15" and 16" genuine Fuchs.

But, for me, I would stick with the genuine article if at all possible. Fuchs are a BIG part of the 911's look. One can't do better than a set of 15's on a long hood or 16's on a short hood IMO. When you start putting 17" wheels on a 911 from the 1980's, the proportions are just off. Moreover, Fuchs are an ultra exotic, high tech OEM component of your car that is synonymous with Porsche and the 911. Why change that?

I will stick with my 16x7 and 16x9 Fuchs until hell freezes over.

Mike

P.S. Thank you Jason Cullen for the great price on my brand new 16x9 Fuchs!

[jonbot]

Thank you everybody for the input, it's extremely helpful in making my decision.


One of the deciding factors, and maybe even where I should be starting, is knowing what tire width I will run. I really like the look of fat Fuchs in front and back, and since I have those turbo flares I could really do something outrageous . However, from a practical standpoint, I have to keep in mind that I drive the car every day. I don't want to sacrifice daily drivability for looks, but I do want something that won't look puny either. This may be a tall order, or maybe on the other hand it's not so much of an issue, but you all have more experience with Porsche suspension than I do. So in a nutshell, considering my car has the turbo flares yet is still running SC suspension with turbo tie-rods, Bilstein shocks, and a bump-steer kit, what tire width combination and offset would maximize performance and minimize steering wheel effort while still looking "substantial" under those flares?

Jon

[reesestewww]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Do the 17"s make you want to install A-pillar gauges and an Autometer tach?

hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm?????

NO

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Do the 17"s make you want to install A-pillar gauges and an Autometer tach?

Does living in Fresno make you want to mount farm animals?

[Dave (Oz)]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I think the air cooled 911s are so classic looking with the 16" wheels because the proportions are juuust right. Some cars like the Ferrari 308, and the 2000 Mustang GT/ Cobra should not be made into Fast and Furious cars.

In my own OPINION (just my $.02), putting 17, or 18, or heaven forbid, 19 inch wheels on a classic 911 will give it a bling-boy ricer look.

Actually when Porsche built the 993, they came out stock with 17 and even 18 inch wheels (and bigger flares). The body dimensions are, otherwise, essentially identical to the earlier series. So if this is a 'bling-boy ricer' look, Porsche started it!

When I asked for comments on my own 911SC, which came with 993 wheels (Italian clones, actually, with an offset that beautifully fills the stock SC flares) and whether I should consider returning it to Fuchs, opinions were predictably varied:

What is this weird contraption?

I've decided to stick with the 17 inch wheels - with 255 rears, grip is phenomenal. They do thump over bumps, but I also have Koni yellow shocks and these may contribute to harshness. As for tire noise, well, its hard to hear much else with a nice open stainless exhaust and 5500 RPM on full throttle. And thats what our cars were designed for right?

[jonbot]

Wow Dave, your car looks really nice with those wheels on it. Did you notice any difference in torque when you stuck those wheels on?

Jon

[silver911]

Dave, very nice...

I've got 17" and when I changed tires I noticed an unbelievable difference between ride comfort and performance. I had Bridgestone Potenzas and they were amazing for grip and speed...however they wear very fast and were rough and loud as hell. I tried Dunlop DZ's because I wanted better wear, value and comfort. I was very surprised at the improvement in ride and noise as my 911 is very low (the ride improvement is quite amazing, even over speed bumps). However, performance was sacrificed as I definitely feel a little more sway at all speeds than the Potenza's. I believe it's not your tire size but your tire choice.....

[Larry_Ratcliff]

I love my 17" wheels! fuch ceters and bbs halves made by lindsay racing.