When does cost overcome a no issues vehicle?
 

At what point does vehicle cost outweigh a well sorted with no issues (pre PPI) car? I am faced with a potential purchase of one of two Carreras. One has a pretty low price and a few fairly minor (I think) issues and some unknowns that will likely not be resolved by a PPI and the other which seems well taken care of, looks good, except that its guards red. It has had recent inevitable work: a top end rebuild at 95K miles due to smoking. I would assume valve guides. But damn, I don't know if I would get over the color...

Both vehicles have similar mileage. The less expensive one has a G50. Even though I have no problems with the 915, that tranny sure is smooth.

So, I suspect what many opinions will suggest, but I thought I might raise the questioin anyway.

-kevin

68%.

that's a useful approximation, but if you want to invest more time, shoot for 67.87531%

i hear a lot of chevy guys just call it "1/3 off" but this is a porsche, after all

You're messing with me, right? You mean there's actually an accepted percentage value for something like this?

-kevin

yah - you need to get ppi's on both - the question just can't be answered at this point

PPI X2.

Best,

Doyle

Even with a PPI, a 911 is like a box of choccolates ... you never know what you're gonna get.

The real question is, do you want a small project or a big project? And do you like throwing a large pile of money down a hole all at once, or do you like to do it a little at a time?

I'd get the colour and body style I want first and foremost. Noone says you have to buy now, and prices will probably come down a bit with where the economy is headed.

Many fish in the pond, there are.

you already dislike red..
so you really are only looking at one car...
you will NOT get over the color...

Rika

Close your eyes and let us know which one do you still see.

Keep looking for the one you love.

Keep looking - I'm with you as far as color, I hate Guards Red too. The right car will come up for you though - How do you feel about Garnet Red? ;)

You should keep looking. There are other well sorted 911's out there. You should find the best one you can for your budget. Don't try to low ball these cars unless you're ready to drop some additional cash and are willing to do some of the work yourself. This is a good time to be shopping with cash, so keep looking until you find what you want. Narrow the choice down to two well sorted cars both at a price you're willing to pay. I would not even try to compare these two.

I also was not looking for a red Porsche. It wasn't that I disliked red, I just wanted something less conspicuous. But as everyone knows, no Porsche is really inconspicuous; some owners just think they are. However, if you truly dislike red, you will never get over the color. If red is just not your first choice, then you very well may find out you like it.

I was looking for a Midnight Blue 993 but chose mechanicals over color. When the owner told me he would sell his C4S with LWF, RS clutch, and a close coupled Paul Guards gear set at no additional cost to me over market value, I said "red no problem".

Now I love the color, especially when it's parked in the garage next to my silver car.

Happy hunting.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1225336639.jpg

There's no such thing as a "No issues" vehicle, especially in Porsches. It's just a matter of how much you want to spend how soon.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

PPI is a must unless you're an expert and can run your own tests.

BOTH will undoubtedly have issues at one time or another.

Don't just settle. Unless I missed it, you haven't given us the "premium" on the well sorted G50 car. If it's $5000, would it take that amount to get the "less sorted" car to the level of the "well sorted" one? What are you going to do with the car? Track, weekend driver, daily driver, hobby car?

Tough decision...only you can make it - based on the PPI by a well qualified shop with no bias or ulterior motives.

It is highly unlikely that you will make a profit on either if you decided to flip. So buy the one that turns you on, fits your budget (purchase price + $1500 for unexpected misc. gremlins) and ultimate use.

PS - You will NOT get over the color - guaranteed. Get the color you want!

Like the one guy said, "do you want a small project or a big project." I had a similar choice of buying an 88 with a ton of miles and some small issues for $11,000. I decided to pass because of the unknown and the color was red, which I a hated.

I then found another one that was in good shape that had regular service and a ton of receipts from loving owners for $16,500. This car was also guards red , but it drove good and I decided to get it.

I loved the car but I couldn't get over the fact that it was red. This only lasted about a month, and every month after, I fell in love with the color more and more.


Do what you need to do when it comes to color, but just buy the best one you can, and deal with the mechanical stuff as it happens. They all need work. You are going to sink at least $20-25,000 into the car regardless, because that is just the way the addiction works.

Cheers,
Craig

I do know that no twenty year old car has NO issues. I suppose I should have said no obvious issues prior to a ppi, but I didn't want the title to be too long. ;)

I plan to use this car as a fun weekend toy and hobby, maybe get in some DE time and as an outlet for stress and my bank account. It won't be a dd as I have a company truck and I already drive my Jeep less than 7000 miles a year.

The difference in asking price for the two vehicles is fairly substantial - about 5 grand. I haven't made any inroads on either vehicle. The clean red one is out of town and the owner hasn't sent me the pics and other info he said he would. That pisses me off a little bit, cause if you say you're going to do something, then do it. I guess he doesn't want to sell that bad after all... And then the local inexpensive (maybe - let's see what the ppi says) one is a bit tied up in an offer pending thing. Maybe I should just wait until spring as the snow will fly here pretty soon.

The issue with colour for me is not so much that I don't like red. Well, I sorta guess it is. In general I'm not really a red kind of guy. I hate metallic reds, don't like burgundys, garnet, brick red, and a whole slew of others. Surprisingly, guards red doesn't make me want to barf. After looking at many pictures of this color, it does kind of grow on me. Most of the Carreras out there are non colours. You know, silver, white and black. I think I want a car that has a real colour. So, this is kind of limiting as the only "colours" that are out there in any volume for the mid eighties cars are red and blue. The blues that I have seen, I like. Guards red, well, maybe...? If I squint my eyes just right and stick my tongue out a little bit... If I had my druthers and could pick any of the Porsche colours, I would likely choose one of the high impact oranges, light yellow, Mexico or gulf blue, or maybe a subtler shade like olive. For some reason, I really like that colour, maybe with RSR finish Fuchs... I have always felt that guards red always screamed, "Look at me!". Not that Mexico blue or tangerine doesn't...

OK, I guess the bottom line is this: guards red is certainly not my first choice, but I suppose I could learn to like it. And admittedly it DOES take a nice polish. I guess I should find a sound car and damn what color it has.

Thanks for everyone's input. I guess it did help a bit, but I don't really feel that much further ahead. I imagine I won't have any either of these cars, and hopefully come spring, I'll find one that just knocks my socks off. Thanks again, all.

-kevin

That is one reason I hated the guards red also; it just screamed look at me too much. But if you get a red one with an excellent finish on it, it is such a unique shade of red, that it just kind of grows on you.

There are a ton of red 911's out there, but I kind of dig the fact that everyone thinks the color sucks. I also dig the fact that the color represented such a outlandish, decadent era of the money grubbing 80's.

So many people disrespect the guards red and decide not to get it, but having the red actually makes it cool to have one. Everyone has silver or black. The unique colors are the best way to go though; blue's, brown's, gold's, oranges and yellow always kicks ass.

Well, that is my opinion because I am stuck with an ugly ass guards red 911, and I am just pissed that I couldn't get a cooler color. Go figure.

In the end, get the car that you want and one that checks out. Everyone says to get a PPI, but I bet 75% of us don't.

Cheers,
Craig

you don't want to by a red car - reread what you wrote - keep looking

lotsa cars out there + long winter + depression = better pricing the longer you look

People probably say to get a ppi because they didn't and regret not doing do. lol

Learn from someone else's mistakes or misfortune?

-kevin

Exactly on the PPI...

We all know we should get one, but when you go to look at these cars you just loose all common sense and fall in love. To tell you the truth, I don't think anybody gets a PPI, we just all talk about it because we know we will be ridiculed if we say otherwise.

Cheers,
Craig

I got a PPI. Knowing what I know now, I would have caught about $3000 in obvious necessary repairs that the PPI missed, and I'm not including the tired tranny in that. Of course, the car was in NY and I was in MI ... and the shop owner probably laughed all the way to the bank with his check.

While I'd approach it differently the next time, I regret nothing.

What would you do differently now?

I would be much more hesitant to buy a car sight unseen.

If I did buy remotely again, I'd:
1) ask on this BBS for a reputable shop (though this would not have saved me in this instance)
2) Knowing much more about 911's now, I would give very specific instructions and questions to the PPI shop (such as checking all of the head studs .. though I lucked out on that one)
3) I would request a written / faxed / emailed statement from the shop with responses to all of my questions
4) I'd require some close up pictures of certain parts of the car, especially from underneath the car.
5) without LOTS of shop and / or parts receipts, I'd assume the worst and base my offer on that
6) if I were new to 911's, Id read this BBS for 6 months before even thinking of buying a car
7) I'd ask on this BBS if I could pay someone here to check the car out as well.

In case you're curious, the shop missed a completely rusted out front pan held together with "structural undercoating", a completely corroded, pitted, sticky-as-hell and loose steering rack, a tranny likely at the end of its life, a battery ground cable almost corroded into 2 pieces, mouse nests and chewed blank wires in a few spots, and the obligatory flattened out hard oil line to the front cooler. Also the statement "car has zero corrosion of any sort" was more than mildly misleading - it clearly has seen some winter duty, though outside of the front pan (which was a battery issue), all of the sheetmetal was sound. Then there was the engine-to-trans nut on the LH lower side that had a 1/4" gap to being tight. And of course the size of the general backlog of deferred maintenance ...

I didn't know enough to notice anything besides the sticky steering when I showed up to pick up the car. Flying into town with a one way ticket, ones bargaining position is not good. And I do not believe the seller was out to rip me off - based on the few existing receipts, I think he just drove it, and when it stopped running, he had it towed to a shop.

So, shame on me.

I still regret nothing - but I paid a great car price for a so-so car in need of lots of little stuff. I added up the parts bills once, I stopped at $4K...

DAMN, burgermeister ...sounds like me.

My experience started with a call from the son-in-law T-Wrench who said come drive this 911 we just traded in on.....I went over and took this 85 Targa for a spin...tranny was nothing like I had experienced before (just terrible feeling,..with mucho problems)..BUT,..I was overtook with the handling and the terrific feedback...next thing I know, I'm calling the local P-shop for a PPI on this local animal and the dude informs me to forget this Targa and turns me on to a local architect who's getting ready to sell his 89 SA Edition. She as maintained for over a decade by this Porsche mechanic (to include the top/bottom rebuild).

Dumbass me, goes over,..drives her,.......writes the check and drive away. Now, I understand FAR more than then,..and wish I had of done my homework, so as to save the cost of a cracked dash, torn seat, and NOW,..a bit of rust bubbling under the driver side windshield.....probably could have gotten'her for $18K'sh,.......

hindsight is perfect 20/20.

burgermeister is soooo dead on,....you have to do your homework and KNOW what to be concerned about,......which is something this board does PERFECTLY!

Best,

Doyle

The part about "6 months on this BBS" is dead on, bud!!


Doyle