f/v
 

you can get a dwell meter at any auto store, as i said before, the f/v is supposed to buzz, and if buzzing, 99% of the time its ok. the valve does not work on its own, it getting a signal from the ecm, either for closed loop or open loop. on a cold engine, the ecm is in open loop, and the valve is relieving pressure in the lower chambers, with richens the mix, when the temp sensor makes it ground, the ecm goes into closed loop, and the freq/valve is modifying the same pressure(the lower differential chambers) to keep the engine at stoiche (14.7 to 1). until the 35 degree throttle switch is open, and then it goes back into closed loop to richen the mix for wot. is it still only hard to start when warm? you need to check you rest pressure. if ok maybe you are have a flooding condition (leaking injector or you mixture is set to rich. it is really hard to start diagnosing fuel problems without the gauges. good luck and keep posting.

It's not a case of hard to start warm. It's 'absolutely will not start when the buzzing starts.'

The buzzing is present when shutting down the engine when warm and turning the ignition back on, or, can be induced with the engine cold by lifting the sensor plate; a slight lift of the sensor plate and the buzzing starts and continues as long as the ignition is on(the buzzing doesn't stop when the sensor plate is allowed to return to its natural position. Touching the sensor plate again makes the frequency of the buzzing change but does not make it go away.

Are the $218 Bosch CIS gauges here on pelican the ones I require?

I recently went through a similar problem to yours I think, I've just skimmed over this thread.

My symptoms... when the car was stone cold it would start up just fine, and run for about 10 minutes. Then it would shut completely off and not restart for about 4 hours, the car would have to completely cool off.

My question is, when your car will not start are you getting any spark? I can't tell from this thread. My simple test for this was to hook up a timing light to plug #1, turn the engine over and see if the timing light fires.

Let me know if you are getting any spark with the car won't start.

Jay

The $60 guages from JC Whitney will work just as well.
( And please don't call me "Mr." Jim.)... :)
And... psalt keeps making the case for a dwell meter. I agree. Diagnosing without one is kind of like just looking at your battery terminals and deciding how many volts are there...

guessing
 

if you want to play guessing games, a few simple things you should do (after you confirm spark) clean your wur, there is a screen in it that gets clogged, and a speck of rust betweem the steel diaphram can cause problems, pull all your injectors and put them in a container and check spray patterns and leaks. also, this happened to me, check the line going from wur to fuel dist. for blockage. if all is ok, further testing with gauges will be required. your warm control press. could be to low causing a flooding condition. you can also build your own gauges at homo-depot or any hardware store, search threads for parts you need

What's the WUR?

And as far as removing the injectors goes, I have another problem. A former owner must have stripped the threads because one injector is held in with a wire tie rigging. Zoom in on the pictures and look to the bottom right. The travesty is visible.

Injectors are held in place with O-rings. Can you take a close up of the stripped thread?

awesome news, so they should just pop out? they're not threaded in? So maybe the previous owner's o-ring was undersized or worn down so it wasn't a tight enough fit to stay there?

I have a class after work so probably no pics today, but your belief is that there are no threads? I guess you've pulled them before; you should know.

when you lift the sensor plate with the key on, there should be resistance. if there is any movement, or very little movement, before you feel the resistance, then the plunger in the FD is not returning to its resting position.
check this when you here the buzzing and when you dont.

There is resistance when the buzzing is and is not present.

No resistance when the ignition is off, which is as it should be (at least that's what I've come to understand).

What I cannot figure out is why raising the sensor plate with the ignition on and the engine off would cause the FV to buzz loudly.

There is still pressure in the system when the ignition is turned off, that's normal.
A functioning, non-leaking accumulator holds that pressure for about an hour to achive hot start.

Some observations:
Going by the pictures, some general TLC wouldn't hurt.
Since the heater hoses to the HE's are disconnected, why not get rid of the heater fan assembly completely and make some room?
Also, if you don't use the Cruise Control, remove the Servo unit along with the cable.
I think it would help if you ask some Pelicanites to have a look at the engine for an assessment to see if things were done OEM or if some things, like wiring, were changed.
Is there someone nearby? :)

When I drove the car (6 years ago) I used the cruise. I hope it still works.

It's good to know what I need to do to have heat again. Thank you.

From the looks of it, a lot of shabby rigging was done at some point in time(lots of the wiring looks more unprofessional than if I had done it, and that's saying something). I hate it, but it's what I have to work with.

This buzzing I am hearing is not normal. I understand that the FV is supposed to buzz or hum, but not like this. I drove the car for two years and never heard this noise. It's loud. It's the FV. But I have yet to determine if the FV is faulty or if I have a problem elsewhere causing the FV to sound like a ticked-off 15 lb. bumblebee.

Oh and I went by autozone last night; bums didn't have a dwell meter. How much should I pay for one?

This suitable?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=sun-cp7605

Guess I'm gettin a new accumulator. It must be bad. Don't know if that'll fix my problems or not.

That large puddle came from the bottom port. :eek:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1227743605.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1227743664.jpg

Also, what's the wire rigging all about? :confused:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1227743742.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1227743792.jpg

Is there an alternative to the $292 accumulator here at pelican? Ouch

You may want to double check the accumulator to see is it's really leaking. When you disconnect the bottom port, there can be fuel inside, that doesn't necessarily imply a leak. When the spring loaded diaphragm inside retracts from the slow bleed-off of pressure with engine shut-down, over time this can pump fuel out of the return line back into the lower accumulator chamber. To be sure you have an actual leak, you can see if the top part will hold air pressure. You will need to make up some sort of connections to do this. Or, you can just disconnect the bottom connection and block off the hose end, and see if you get fuel out the bottom of the accumulator when briefly energizing the fuel pump.

Injector #4........
 

The copper wire around injector #4 was probably rigged to prevent the FI from popping out. The O-ring (seal) is no longer effective to hold the FI in place. Thus a possible source of air leak at this particular point.

The fuel coming off the bottom port of the FA is NORMAL. Why??? The bottom port or drain is connected to the main fuel return line. As such, there is always fuel present in the FA (top & bottom) after the pump delivers gas to the system. To test a FA, you need to measure the resudual pressure or pressurized the FA itself to confirm if the diaphragm is ruptured or not.

Performing CIS troubleshooting in the absence of a suitable fuel pressure gauge involves a lot of guess work and time consuming. Not to mention unnecessary expenses. There is abundant help available in tech forum.

Tony

Roger, will do a low pressure pnuemostat on the top end of the accumulator in the morning. If it holds pressure reasonably well, guess I'll put it and the new fuel filter back in.

What will an air leak across my injector do?