Burning Brad Penn, Opinions on Valvoline VR1?

[qcwang]

I'm truly sorry, another "what oil do I use question".

I have a stock 1983 SC and earlier this year tried Brad Penn 20W-50 as it has more antiwear additives/ZDDP compared to the newer SM formulations. I noticed I burned oil at a faster rate compared to dino. Instead of my normal quart per 1200-1500 miles or so, it was about 500-600 with the Brad Penn. Then at a track day at Willow Springs, I drank through a quart by midday, which was unusual compared to dino. I felt this was most likely due to Brad Penn being a partial synthetic. Switched back to dino and used my last bottle of GM EOS and things back to normal.

In the October 2008 PCA Porsche Panorama, Valvoline VR1 was discussed in Allan Caldwell's article, "Motor Oil Update Revisited". I looked up Reference #6 and found the links below.

http://www.valvoline.com/downloads/2008-003a.pdf
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=50

I am curious on people's opinion on Valvoline VR1. The first link to the technical bulletin claims it has 75% more zinc than SM rated engine oil formulations. I didn't see that it was a synthetic, so I am thinking it may be a good alternative to Brad Penn.
What do you think?

Thank you.

[Zef]

Interesting....is a partial synthetic oil more prone to burn ? I used straight mineral and my current oil is a partial synthetic one...no diff noted.

[hcoles]

this doesn't really help I guess but - this is the first post I remember re. BP and burning faster - I'm on BP but haven't done a track day on it - I might have but crs.

[Steve@Rennsport]

FWIW,...B-P is a partial synthetic but IS a dino oil, indeed.

There are other reasons why your oil consumption has increased that related to what oil was previously used in the engine.

[SP2]

I have more consumption with BP too, but I think it is from increased leaking.

[sig_a]

Over the past 13000 miles, I've noted decreased oil consumption switching from GTX non syn and Rotella non syn to 100 percent synthetic Mobil M1 15w 50.

I've changed the oil with filter 4 times, the last two with M1 15w 50.

I believe the flash point of full synthetic M1 15w 50 is much higher, and therefore less effected by high temperature vaporization, than the GTX or Rotella.

I think Brad Penn's flash point is considerably lower than Mobil M1 15w 50, and this fact accounts for your high consumption rate.

[hcoles]

assuming leaking is taken out of the conversation.. some oil consuption is not necessarily bad... right? Maybe not.. I was just thinking if the oil is doing a good job of getting into all the places... then some will be used. I don't know... just asking. E.g. 1 qt. / 1000 miles doesn't mean that oil is better for your engine compared to another brand using 1.3 qt./ 1000 miles.

[Por_sha911]

IIRC, BP is only 10% synth. I can't imagine that this is not enough to make a difference in burning or leakage. Is there a possibility that your motor is just burning more due to continued age and mileage? Having said that, if you switch and the problem goes away then stick with what works for you.

[qcwang]

Thanks for the replies.
Maybe I'll give VR1 a try since it claims to have more zinc. Hopefully it will be a good alternative to Brad Penn.

[juanbenae]

dooley noted as i am into my 1st go of BP moving from rotella & the EOS brew. will be doing my 1st track event with the BP this weekend so i will pay attention more.

T$

[rnln]

I have not used VR1 but what I notice BP vs other dino oil is:

With BP...
- leak some oil, just wet on engine case, no drop, no wet on the floor.
- burn some oil, maybe from leak. I don't know.
- less valve noise
- no metal shave on drain plug, not at all.

With Castrol and Vavoline...
- no oil burned.
- no wet on engine case.
- more valve noise.
- and always had metal shave on drain plug.

[MotoSook]

Originally Posted by rnln

I have not used VR1 but what I notice BP vs other dino oil is:

With BP...
- leak some oil, just wet on engine case, no drop, no wet on the floor.
- burn some oil, maybe from leak. I don't know.
- less valve noise
- no metal shave on drain plug, not at all.

With Castrol and Vavoline...
- no oil burned.
- no wet on engine case.
- more valve noise.
- and always had metal shave on drain plug.

I'm sure you don't mean "metal shav[ings]" just so no one gets alarmed, but your observations are interesting. How many oil changes have you gone through?

Quincey, you might try Shell Rotella. Based on your 2x consumption since the oil switch, you might follow up on what Steve has posted. Maybe the BP is less viscous when hot and is getting past your valve seals which haven't necessarily gotten worst, where as the full dino was more viscous at higher temps and not passing by the valve seals.

[rnln]

Maybe 2 changes. Yes, I meant metal shaving. I usually see metal shaving on this car's drain plug with castrol, etc. With BP, I see none.

Originally Posted by Souk

I'm sure you don't mean "metal shav[ings]" just so no one gets alarmed, but your observations are interesting. How many oil changes have you gone through?

Quincey, you might try Shell Rotella. Based on your 2x consumption since the oil switch, you might follow up on what Steve has posted. Maybe the BP is less viscous when hot and is getting past your valve seals which haven't necessarily gotten worst, where as the full dino was more viscous at higher temps and not passing by the valve seals.

[cnavarro]

The Brad Penn tends to hold it's viscosity better at higher temperatures compared to other oils in my experience, especially in conditions where extreme oil temperatures are reported and the customer's surprise that they are holding oil pressure where with other oils they didn't.

I'm with Steve, there's something else leading to your increased oil consumption (or losses).

With regards to Mr. Caldwell's article, his article does highlight the issue but does not provide the best recommendations based off of real world experiences but rather what any given manufacturer's marketing department has been spouting out.

I for one cannot recommend VR-1 as I know of one engine builder and racer with numerous failures running their most recent reformulation. Their true racing oils (the non-street-legal versions) I've tested and are excellent, but you're limited in how long it can be run and it's very expensive to boot.

The recommendations that individuals like Steve and I make are based off of years of observations and experience with the products that we know work (as documented in the very lengthy ultimate oil thread).

[356RS]

Very good information from Charles and Steve. There long experience with air cooled engine oils is full of important information.

[MotoSook]

Originally Posted by rnln

Maybe 2 changes. Yes, I meant metal shaving. I usually see metal shaving on this car's drain plug with castrol, etc. With BP, I see none.

You mean the very fine metal filings that form a grease-like paste on the drain plug right...as oppose to shavings or slivers of metal.

Charles, I'm running BP in the Carrera for the first time. I haven't noticed any change in oil pressure. But I haven't been on the track with it and most running has been on the street with oil temps below 200F. I honestly can't say that I've noticed any change in the way the car behaves. I'll report any thing interesting after the first oil event or oil change.

[GothingNC]

Originally Posted by rnln

Maybe 2 changes. Yes, I meant metal shaving. I usually see metal shaving on this car's drain plug with castrol, etc. With BP, I see none.

Same here.

[Jim Richards]

I've happily used VR1 in my 73E for the past few years. Street/track use.

[cnavarro]

VR1 was changed last August, which they may have changed it again, just like Mobil keeps changing M1.

As with M1, the current VR1 isn't what everyone was using previously, that is for sure.

[MotoSook]

On the last Motor Week episode I saw (last weekend), there was a Valvoline engineer on as a guest to discuss the new oil formulations. They discussed the the industry shift from 1200-1400 ppm of ZDDP to about half that to slow coating of the catalytic converters which are now required to last twice as long as they were originally. They also discussed older cars with tappet valves and metal on metal rotating parts.

The Valvoline engineer indicated that for engines with tappet valves and metal to metal parts, the new formulation of VR1 (IIRC ~800 PPM of ZDDP, but Charles has the data) that had already been run in (some miles after break-in) would be fine with the current VR1. Yet he recommended VR1 Racing oil for break-in of rebuilt engines.

I'm sure the Valvoline engineer wouldn't come out and tell you that the new VR1 is harmful to our engines. Someone pass me a grain of salt, please.