Total suspension newbie question.. yes i searched!

[sempaipaul]

Hey guys,

well i have been searching for the past 3 or so hours on the board, trying to educate my self some more on what i should/can do to my 87 convertible carrera

Ok, so what is the basic list for suspension upgrades that you guys recommend for the carrera? ad in what order should it be done? i will not be tracking but I am on the road to trick it out

btw... the car has new struts all the way around.

Thanks,
Paul

stype1990@aol.com

[dan88911]

Have you checked out Elephant Racing .com ?

[JeremyD]

Poly bronze
Turbo Tie rods
Bilstien HD's front, Sports rear

That should get you started

[burgermeister]

5 DE days with the car as-is ... cheaper and more fun than replacing suspension bits, and probably a better return on the money to boot.

It's not what you asked, but it's what I would do (am doing).

[barney911rs]

If you don't plan to track the car, I don't see the need to upgrade anything. The stock components are fine for street driving, especially if they are new. Just my $.02

[911st]

First look in-front of the rear tire where the torsion tube comes out. Is it reasonably centered to the spring plate? If not, ether take the cheap way and have them switched from side to side or replace the bushings with Neatrix rubber bushings.

Then have some one look at the front a arms to see if they are sagging. If they are ether have someone dismantle them and use some heat to trun the front bushings 180 deg. or have new rubber bushings installed. Both can sag. Even on low mileage cars. If they sag enough they can start to effect metal to metal rubbing on the Torsion bar springs.

You sound like you already have new shocks on all four. Sport/HD's seem popular.

Other than that, all you need is good tires. If you have 6&7. ,7&8 or 6&8/16 rims, I love the Dunlop Star Spec tires. They are the best tire of the new street class race tire group in tires that fit 205/225/16.

Then, have a good Porsche race shop set the height to Euro Height and corner balance the car.

This will set you up with a great street, back road car that is even good for a fast DE day.

Add to that a M&K pre muffler or cat bypass, sport muffler (or just add a second tail pipe to the passenger side), and 911Chips.com chip. Then, take the spair, jack, tools, and compressor out to the trunk. Take the rear seat belts and seats out of the back for a 120lb savings. Want more there is aboot 50 lbs of insulation under the rear cover and carpet area.

Now you have a very nice street / back roads 911. Want more than that and you have a lot of dollars chasing little increase in performance.

At least that is my opinion.

[450knotOffice]

I have a Cab (like you) and I rebuilt the suspension myself a few years ago. I'd recommend doing it all at once so you don't need to waste money having it aligned and corner balanced numerous times.

- New Neatrix bushings all around (next time I'll go with Polybronze from Elephant Racing, but for now, these are definitely better than stock rubber)

- Turbo tie rods

- 22mm front and 28mm rear torsion bars

- Bilstein Sports all four corners

- Rennline strut brace in front

- Lowered and then given a more performance oriented alignment and corner balance by a well known Porsche shop

- Extreme Performance Summer tires on 7 and 8 inch Fuchs (if you can get 8's and 9's - even better)

- High performance brake pads and high boiling point brake fluid (like ATE Super Blue, for example)

- Try to eliminate weight in the car. Weight is huge when it comes to performance.

[porschenut]

Set it to Euro ride height and get an alignment with a little bit of negative camber, and that's it. Why do you want to trick it out? Porsche has already given you a car with the perfect street compromise between performance and comfort.

Just replace worn out items only - like replacing the bushings with OEM rubber on the front and Neatrix rear. Replace sway bar bushings if they are no longer serviceable. Replace shocks and inserts as they wear out. Do nothing else.

If you decide to track the car, that's the time to consider stiffening your suspension. But you'd be wasting your money doing that on a cabriolet. It's a horrible platform for a track car.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by sempaipaul

Hey guys,

well i have been searching for the past 3 or so hours on the board, trying to educate my self some more on what i should/can do to my 87 convertible carrera

Ok, so what is the basic list for suspension upgrades that you guys recommend for the carrera? ad in what order should it be done? i will not be tracking but I am on the road to trick it out

btw... the car has new struts all the way around.

Thanks,
Paul

stype1990@aol.com

I'm with Jeremy -
Poly bronze all around, keep them greased and have perfectly performing suspension travel

Turbo Tie rods

New Bilstien's or Koni's (you say you have new struts, assume new ball joints in them? If not, new BJ and wheel bearings all around)

Good tires, euro ride height, street alignment (you said no tracking) and corner balance.

Drive.

[911st]

Originally Posted by 911st

Then, take the spair, jack, tools, and compressor out to the trunk. Take the rear seat belts and seats out of the back for a 120lb savings. Want more there is about 50 lbs of insulation under the rear cover and carpet area.

Sorry, left out putting in a light weight battery. That is part of the 120+ lbs that can come off easy. That is like adding 10hp, then there is about 26 HP available in the cat deleat, sport muffler & chip.

We used to have local Cab owner here that only had sport shocks, well chosen street tires, a chip on the full stock exhaust system, factory LSD, and a very good lowering and alignment. He almost always got top time of the day at autoX and was wicked fast at the DE's to. Except for a good set up and shocks, it was a stock car against some very modified cars. I think the cab has a much lower center of gravity which is an advantage.

Enjoy.

[GaryR]

I would leave the spare in for a road car, it's part of the collision protection. I even run it in my race car as I need the weight to make class and it's up front and low..

[911st]

I kind of suspect that might be a wives tail.

The last gen Gt2 did not have a spare. It came with a can of tire inflate.

I find a AAA card is even lighter (knock on wood).

A well maintained 911 set to euro height with a sport alignment, corner ballance, and good tires it hard to beat -- even full up and stock.

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally Posted by sempaipaul

Hey guys,

Ok, so what is the basic list for suspension upgrades that you guys recommend for the carrera? ad in what order should it be done? i will not be tracking but I am on the road to trick it out

btw... the car has new struts all the way around.

Thanks,
Paul

stype1990@aol.com

Your suspension really needs to be viewed as a system in which all the components interact.

If the components are properly balanced with each other, and tuned for your objectives - then your suspension will sing in harmony, and do exactly what you want - life is good.

Improperly balanced components, or components tuned for the wrong objectives make for a suspension that fights with itself, or the driver, and is hard to live with - life is bad.

Step one is to really define your objective. You indicated it is a street car, but you need to go a level deeper; is this a daily driver that needs refreshing with a little extra 'sport' or is it your weekend toy for canyon carving and fun drives? Does it need to stay soft enough to take the wife on long trips? etc.

Secondly, put a budget to it. You can spend a lot, or whole lot. Those are pretty much the only two choices. That's a joke, but we all have different ideas of what constitutes 'alot' of money. And we all derive different levels of satisfaction by having the trick parts in our cars. For some, that really enhances the ownership enjoyment. For others, it's a waste of cash.

Third step is to select the parts to fit those goals, and talk about any sequencing of the build.

On this last bit, there are a good many of the parts that just flat make sense to install at the same time. Otherwise you will end up repeating labor time and expense. To avoid that duplicated expense, your really need your end-game planned out, and get good advice on the sequencing from knowledgable people.

Let me know if I can help.

[RWebb]

At a minimum you need to replace every piece of rubber in the suspension. At that time I'd put Chuck's polybronze bushing in -- at least in the front. I hear from expert sources that the ride is actually better than new stock rubber. So, I'd do that no matter what.

911st's wt. estimates appear overstated -- it's hard to tewll from what he lists. If you are interested in reducing wt. I posted links to accurate data in the thread titled "Enlightenment."

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by RWebb

At a minimum you need to replace every piece of rubber in the suspension. At that time I'd put Chuck's polybronze bushing in -- at least in the front. I hear from expert sources that the ride is actually better than new stock rubber. So, I'd do that no matter what.

911st's wt. estimates appear overstated -- it's hard to tewll from what he lists. If you are interested in reducing wt. I posted links to accurate data in the thread titled "Enlightenment."

Agree, the difference in ease of movement through the suspension travel is night and day, and the polybronze bushings don't deflect like the rubber. I would never run anything else but his PB and monoball setups. The Camber King in the front shock tower rounds out the set nicely..

[911st]

Weight loss possibilities:

50 lbs, spare, jack, compressor, tools.
45 lbs, Stock battery at 65 lbs, race battery's are around 20.
20 lbs, rear seats & belts.
7 lbs, Cat replaced w cat bypass.
40 lbs, replace rear deck cover, speakers, and insulation, w carpet like the CS.
50 lbs, A/C

Or something like that.

[911ctS]

For a street car that is driven as a daily driver or canyon carver:

Examine the bushings and address the situation via methods listed in this thread.

Lose as much weight as possible by deleting items that you don't use or don't mind taking out. Many components can be replaced by lighter ones. Lighter= better acceleration, better braking, better handling. There really is no substitute for making the car lighter.

Stick with the Bilsteins you purchased.

Lower the car to Euro height if not already.

Corner balance.

Get some nice aggressive tires.

With these mods you will find out what suites you best and what to do next. You can proceed from here in any direction you choose for your car without any wasted funds.

[JeremyD]

Chuck - What's about the stiffest you can go TB wise for a convertible?

My car is probably about 50/50 Street Track right now.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by 911st

I find a AAA card is even lighter (knock on wood).
[/img]

I have AAA but it won't help if you are in the boondocks and have 0 bars on your cell phone.

Even if you aren't tracking the car, after 22 years and _?_ miles, you probably would enjoy fresh shocks. I put Turbo Tie Rods on mine. I've heard polybronze make noise if you don't keep them greased constantly.

[dfink]

You really should have just bought my cab when it was in go fast mode. Had all the goodies you are looking for. Now all back to stock. At least you got the noise maker. If no track time intended I would leave the suspension alone other than some new shocks. On a 20+ year old car just look for rubber and replace it. - All of it -

If you are still looking for bumpers I have a brand new still in the box set of yellow bird replicas from better bodies. I ordered before I bought my new car and it already has fiberglass. $899 plus actual shipping. Original shipping was $175 but it should be cheaper than that because it is already boxed and packed but I don't know how much.

Want performance get ahold of 911chips and get upgrade best money you can spend. Will make that muffler bypass really sing.

A corner balance is great for the track but I don't think you will get much out of it on the street unless it is way off. If you are locking up a front tire when you brake hard then it might be worth it to get better braking performance. Have them set the front weights the same.

Did I mention anything rubber.......

Also if changing bushings I would stay with rubber and not go polybronze for the street. Neatrix would be great for street use. Definately replace the swaybar bushings if they have not been done. Huge improvement for not much investment.

Oh and don't forget anything rubber......

By the way anything I say is superceded by anything Chuck Moreland or several others here have to say as they are much more experienced than I.