Ford Mass Air Conversion question

racinjason302 · 04-07-2009, 06:59 PM

Can someone kindly point me in the right direction of a schematic wiring diagram for converting a ford mass air meter to a 1989 911?

Any info about this conversion would be appreciated.

I am wanting to convert to mass air becaquse I am making a turbo kit for the Carrera.

I have many years experience turbo charging mustangs and have many spare parts like mass air meters and injectors but have little knowledge about the porsche I own.......I don't even know the injector size.

Any diagrams or info can be emailed to racinjason12345@yahoo.com

Thank-you in advance
Jason

Bart_dood · 04-08-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racinjason302

Can someone kindly point me in the right direction of a schematic wiring diagram for converting a ford mass air meter to a 1989 911?

Any info about this conversion would be appreciated.

I am wanting to convert to mass air becaquse I am making a turbo kit for the Carrera.

I have many years experience turbo charging mustangs and have many spare parts like mass air meters and injectors but have little knowledge about the porsche I own.......I don't even know the injector size.

Any diagrams or info can be emailed to racinjason12345@yahoo.com

Thank-you in advance
Jason

Hi Jason,

I am working on a system that is a plug and play MAF (mass air flow) system for 84-89 911's. You can find more info on my website (link below); I am very close to taking orders, probably in the next 7-14 days.

racinjason302 · 04-08-2009, 12:53 PM

You you have a wiring diagram you can send me for my conversion?
I have unlimited access to a dyno for tuning.
Jason

asphaltgambler · 04-08-2009, 01:02 PM

Let me know where you stand on this unit as far as actual delivery of the product, thanks

911st · 04-08-2009, 07:59 PM

Check with these guys. They have what you need to work between the MAF and Motronics AFM sensor input.

http://www.splitsec.com/

However, having said that, why recreate the wheel, Protomotive makes a chip that allow you to do a blow through system. Better yet thay can also mod your Motronics system to use a TPS and MAP system. See http://www.geocities.com/protomotive/

Enjoy.

asphaltgambler · 04-09-2009, 07:33 AM

I disagree here..........................after much research on this subject the only shop close to having a true plug and play set-up beside the above unti is Lindsey racing. They as well as Bart_dood are the only maf kits that include an air temp sensor.

Until now Lindsey was the only choice except their unit is calibrated for the 944 T but with the tuner module it should easily tune to the 3.2

It would seem that now that there is a true maf kit; plug-n-play for our cars. I'm lining up to pull the trigger as soon as it is in production....................................

911st · 04-09-2009, 07:52 AM

I do not see anything to disagree with. Why do you have to disagree and what are you disagreeing with?

Sounds like the Lindsy 944T system might be a possibility. I assume a reprogrammed chip is part of the system but I could be wrong. If so, is the architecture of the 944T chip compatible with the 911 chip?

The only "plug and play" turbo system I am aware of for the 911 are the Protomotove systems. There might be others. Most turbo conversions for the 911 seem to require scrounging, adapting, and tuning time.

Bart_dood · 04-09-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

Let me know where you stand on this unit as far as actual delivery of the product, thanks

Basically I am in the process of evaluating all the production parts as a kit that will go into the final shipped product to check for things like fit/finish and ease of assembly on to the car.
I am also finishing up details like the user installation manual etc.

I will be updating my website when I am ready to take orders and I'll post on this forum also.

asphaltgambler · 04-09-2009, 08:44 AM

My point here is that Lindsey has a unit (for a turbo application) that is going to be much closer to actual plug-n-play than either of the other more generic maf conversion kits.

We are not re-inventing the wheel when the maf kits form Lindsey or Bart_dood are the closest thing possible to solving the ongoing issue of replacing the barn-door units on our 911's

911st · 04-09-2009, 11:09 AM

In the hope of arriving at a solid approach through discussion I suspect the following:

There is much more to a turbo conversion than replacing the AFM with a MAF sensor. Even the MAF is not a best soulition.

Bart's unit is a nice idea and could be adapted but that dose not get one close to a turbo conversion. It would have to be reset for different airflow expectation and we still would need a lot of chip tunning to become a viable part of a turbo conversion. It is just a different air flow sensor and I belive is tuned to output signals that are the same as the AFM. Thus, after about 200hp the output signal is pegged at near 4v.

The Split Second AFM --> MAF conversion box is the most tunable of the bunch as to the output signal. It can be maped agenst RPM, manfold pressure (boost vac) as well as gross air flow and then we get to set the desired voltage output based on these variables. This is still just the air flow sensing part.

The Lindsy system sounds like it has potential, may be easily fitted, and hooked up, but we will still have to figure out the chip tunning part. Most 944T systems use a fixed highpressure fuel pressure regulator and or larger injectors.

Instead on a 911 Turbo conversion a boost sensing fuel pressure reg is typically used. Again, if Lindsy only gives you access to the 944T chip architecture I would not expect the 3.2 chip is mapped the same and we hit a wall. If you want to retrofit the full 944T system over to the 911 we are getting somewhere. Now we have all the hardware, tunable software, and even gain acces to chip control over boost but still need to do the tunning part.

The work is in getting the chip dialed in to pull back timing and work with the vastly different air flow and fuel quantity expectation that comes with a turbo.

None except the Protomotove is near being a plug and play for a turbo conversion. With there blow through system all that is needed is a boost modified fuel pressure reg and there chip to get 95% where one needs to be.

I am not sure why the big need to replace the AFM. Many are succefully makeing well over 400hp with this. Much past this and we are start hitting the thermal and structural limits of the 3.2 without major modification anyway. If more than that is wished, the haved a MAP conversion of your Motronics that adds the function of a TPS and MAP sensing to eliminate the restriction of the AFM or MAP all togeather.

I could be off base here or we might be talking about different things. I am surely not an expert on this.

The best.

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

I think SW has one out for a few years now, or is that something different? It says its a "simple 20 minute plug and play installation"

911st · 04-09-2009, 11:55 AM

He stoped selling his system some time ago.

Steve W · Steve W's Garage

Actually I have a new system I've been working on, quite trick. Simpler - few people know about it - hopefully to be announced later along with dyno comparison data ....

911st · 04-09-2009, 03:42 PM

I know nothing!

asphaltgambler · 04-10-2009, 05:19 AM

OK now..............................who's on first??!!

911st · 04-10-2009, 06:36 AM

First call I would make would go to SW about his future MAF kit if considering a normal aspirated conversion. I would call him to see if he will support using it for a turbo conversion as he has the magic key to the chip programing.

Second call would be to Protomotive if thinking of a turbo conversion for a blow through AFM or MAP (similar to the RUF Yellow Bird). He can supply the software to tune your own chip.

Other than that kind of on ones own and have to adapt using Bart's new MAF system, Split second Timing's , or Lindsy's stuff.

Also, M&K mufflers may be doing a turbo kit but not sure. He has helped several go turbo.

Another approach is to just go to an aftermarket EFI system for getter tunability, O2 tuning, data loging...

racinjason302 · 04-12-2009, 07:14 PM

Amyone try putting the air vane meter before a turbo and use additional injectors to compensate for boost?
.....any thoughts on that?

911st · 04-12-2009, 08:37 PM

Porsche put the meter before the turbo on the 944 turbo.

Running a boost compensating fuel pressure regulator jacks up the fuel pressure with boost to deliver the added fuel needed. No added injectors are needed. Some go to 944T injectors with higher HP levels on 3.2 based conversions.

racinjason302 · 04-13-2009, 05:54 AM

Sounds like an easy thing to try if the tuning on the Mass Air doesn't work out.
I was thinking of adding a meth injection if more fuel was needed under boost.

I guess the turbo and vane meter would go underneath the engine compartment to keep the hot side out of the engine bay?

That would lead to a low oil return line on the turbo.............what is the best way to return the oil back to the engine?

911st · 04-13-2009, 06:11 AM

When the motor is running the motor compartment is not really a hot environment. There is so much air being exchanged between the intake and cooling air.

All the hot air is coming out of the bottom and back of the car.

Best way for turbo oil is to add a 930 style return pump that is driven off the back of the cam. However, many add a drain for the turbo into the bottom of the chain housing. Works well.

Do some searches, there is a lot of info on it here.