Looking for fuel line fitting size.

[Kroggers]

I have to replace all my fuel line attachments, and believe I have measured them correctly, but could do with some confirmation before I place the order. Can someone confirm if these sizes are correct:-
.- Attachment at fuel tank - M13 Female
.- Top of fuel filter - M15 Female
.- Top of accumulator - M13 Female
.- Bottom of accumulator - M13 Female
.- Fuel pump (Bosch) - M11 Male

[turborat]

Kroggers,

For my '78 ROW SC, all of the fittings were even numbered. 10mm, 12mm, 14mm. Your measurements appear to be 1mm larger.

The banjo fitting on the fuel pump is 10mm. The ends of the plastic fuel lines out of the tub are 12MM. The accumulator is 12mm, the fuel filter is 12mm and 14mm.

Are you converting to SS braided hose?

[David]

I also believe they are all even. You can get the correct spherical fittings for braided lines at www.batinc.net

[Kroggers]

Cool, thank you. My car is a 78 ROW SC as well, so the measurements should be the same as on your car... Looks like I have all my measurements one size to big, as you pointed out.
Yes, I am converting to ss braided hose. I am considering running the fuel line down the side of the car - on the opposite side from the oil lines. So use the same attachment method as the oil lines. Feels like a better way to do it, that way I can see the complete fuel line end-to-end...

Originally Posted by turborat

Kroggers,

For my '78 ROW SC, all of the fittings were even numbered. 10mm, 12mm, 14mm. Your measurements appear to be 1mm larger.

The banjo fitting on the fuel pump is 10mm. The ends of the plastic fuel lines out of the tub are 12MM. The accumulator is 12mm, the fuel filter is 12mm and 14mm.

Are you converting to SS braided hose?

[turborat]

I was able to utilize Aeroquip hose, hose ends and metric adapters exclusively. I did not utilize the OEM pump or the accumulator as I built a track only car. These fittings are tough to find. The fuel pump needs a 10mm banjo to AN-6 fitting. The previous post with the BAT link will get you started on finding that fitting. The website does not disclose the manufacturer of the metric fittings, but they are in Germany or Netherlands as I recall. Send an email to BAT for some clues. I was never able to source the fittings for the accumulator. These will probably require some custom work to get suitable connection. BTW, my track car starts fine without the accumulator.

You may consider rethinking the routing of fuel hoses outside of the car. Some additional risk analysis may be in order. Consider running the hoses through the tunnel. I you remove the shifter, e-brake assy. and the rear cover, you should be able to pull AN-6 hose through with a little persuasion.

[David]

I'd second the recommendation to keep them in the tunnel.

[turborat]

I recalled the name of the fitting manufacturer. You should find some of what you need in their catalog.

http://www.krontec.com/

[Kroggers]

Originally Posted by turborat

I was able to utilize Aeroquip hose, hose ends and metric adapters exclusively. I did not utilize the OEM pump or the accumulator as I built a track only car. These fittings are tough to find. The fuel pump needs a 10mm banjo to AN-6 fitting. The previous post with the BAT link will get you started on finding that fitting. The website does not disclose the manufacturer of the metric fittings, but they are in Germany or Netherlands as I recall. Send an email to BAT for some clues. I was never able to source the fittings for the accumulator. These will probably require some custom work to get suitable connection. BTW, my track car starts fine without the accumulator.

You may consider rethinking the routing of fuel hoses outside of the car. Some additional risk analysis may be in order. Consider running the hoses through the tunnel. I you remove the shifter, e-brake assy. and the rear cover, you should be able to pull AN-6 hose through with a little persuasion.

Thank you, that is a lot of good information. I was not planning to use Aeroquip, as they are very expensive here in Scandinavia. My plan was to look for more local manufacturers/suppliers, My first requirement was to identify the thread size for each of the attachments, and then start visiting the local shops in Stockholm to see what they could supply.

I will reconsider the routing of the fuel line. I will look at running AN-6 through the tunnel.

So, to confirm:

.- Attachment at fuel tank - M12 Female
.- Top of fuel filter - M14 Female
.- Top of accumulator - M12 Female
.- Bottom of accumulator - M12 Female
.- Fuel pump (Bosch) - M10 Banjo

Any other connectors I will require?

[Kroggers]

Originally Posted by turborat

I recalled the name of the fitting manufacturer. You should find some of what you need in their catalog.

http://www.krontec.com/

Cool, they are in Germany. That is good. Thank you

[turborat]

You will need about 13 meters of hose. You will also need to plan for connections where the hoses enter and exit the tunnel. Running a single length of hose from tank to engine compartment will kink, rub and be dangerous in the long run. So, you will need 2 to 4 straight and 2 to 4 angled hose ends depending on your routing.

Consider using metric adapters where possible. This will require fewer special metric hose ends. Should save a few Euros and make future potential repairs easier. This method will work on the fuel filter and the two connections on the engine.

The difficult connections are going the be the accumulator and the tank. Both are male with concave orifices. I have not been able to find a female hose end or adapter with a convex orifice.

I have a nice used set of plastic lines from a Carrera. If you have an interest PM me.

Paul

[Kroggers]

Great, thank you Paul. My shopping list is starting to come together here now.
I had a closer look at the plastic lines that go through the car today, and the lines do not look bad. The attachments at the rear are really bad with rust, and I had to cut the soft part of the lines at the front due to rust. So here is my plan - leave the hard line in place and attach new ss lines to them using good quality clamps. I see that Aeroquip do some good attachments that allow you to do this, and read a couple of threads here on pelican where others have done the same.

So If I take this approach, what will I need in the Aeroquip (or equivalent brand) shopping list:
.- 5 meters of AN-6 hose

.- Attachment at fuel tank (fuel return line) - M12 Female, could have problem here as it requires a female connector with convex orifice which is not available as Aeroquip.

.- Top of fuel filter - M14 Female adapter + AN-6

.- Top of accumulator - M12 Female, could have problem here as it requires a female connector with convex orifice which is not available as Aeroquip.

.- Bottom of accumulator - M12 Female adapter + AN-6

.- Fuel pump (Bosch) - M10 banjo fitting

What about the other connections on the engine, what are they. My engine is not in the car at the moment, and has been sent of for storage, so I can not get to it to see the connections.

Thank you for the guidance Paul, greatly appreciated

[turborat]

Paul, The adapter should be male 14mm AN 6 instead of female for fuel filter. The same adapters should work for the two engine connections. Check your hose ends to be sure. I cannot recall if they were both 14mm or if one of them is 12mm.

As I recall, the hose connection on the bottom of the accumulator is a simple rubber fuel line with small hose clamp. No adapters should be need unless you have something different.

Good luck on your project. Let us know how it works clamping new ends on the OEM plastic lines.

[Kroggers]

Thank you Paul. Do you have any pic's of your set-up I could look at? Very interested in the attachment points...

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by Kroggers

Thank you Paul. Do you have any pic's of your set-up I could look at? Very interested in the attachment points...

Hi Paul -
I followed your link from another thread. So is the consensus that AN-6 is big enough for fuel supply?

Thanks,
Tom

[Kroggers]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Hi Paul -
I followed your link from another thread. So is the consensus that AN-6 is big enough for fuel supply?

Thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom, as I understand it, AN-6 is the biggest you can get through the tunnel comfortably. I have read threads here by people who have managed to get bigger down the tunnel, but not without modifications.

My approach will be to try and attach ss AN-6 onto both ends of the hard line that is currently running through the tunnel, as this part of my lines are still OK.

I will let you know if i succeed or not, but first i need to identify all the attachments i will require and the metric adapters etc...

[turborat]

I am not sure if these picture will help you given that you will route per the factory, but have a look. AN-6 is the size required for fuel flow and available space in the tunnel.

The pump is inside the cell and I opted for a Fram filter mounted on the front of cell.


The hoses are routed just behind the bulkhead on the passenger side and run a long the floor and tunnel on right side.


Hoses exit rear bulkhead


For now, I have reused the hose that normally hooks to the factory filter. Hose end has 14mm an-6 adapter


Another 14mm an-6 adapter in the fuel return point.

[Kroggers]

That is a nice set-up you have there Paul, and close to my future plans, but not in my current schedule and budget. One day I would like to get a Fuel Safe cell

But my list is getting closer to completion:

.- 7 meters of AN-6 hose - Need to measure again to see if this will be enough.

.- Attachment at fuel tank (fuel return line) - M12 Female, could have problem here as it requires a female connector with convex orifice which is not available as Aeroquip.
.- Top of accumulator - M12 Female, could have problem here as it requires a female connector with convex orifice which is not available as Aeroquip.

.- Top of fuel filter - M14 Female adapter + 90° AN-6

.- Bottom of accumulator - M12 Female adapter + AN-6

.- Fuel pump (Bosch) - M10 banjo fitting

.- Fuel rails - 2 x M?? adapter + AN-6 straight

.- Fuel Dampner - M?? adapter + AN-6 45°

.- Fuel Regulator - M16 adapter + AN-6 straight

.- Other connections 3 x AN-6 + 1 x AN-6 'T' for fuel line branch.

Paul, in your earlier post you mention removing the accumulator, I understood this to be critical part of the CIS system, and retained pressure after engine cut-off. What is the negative impact of removing the accumulator on the CIS system on a 95% track car?

[Kroggers]

OK, this is probably going to get me shot down, but would the lines from here be acceptable to use? http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/hoses/hoses.php

[turborat]

Paul, The hose on the link you provided is not suitable. It is only rated for 150 PSI. This will certainly leak if used. It is also metric. Most SS braided hose meant for hose ends is SAE/AN. Be sure to get hose ends that are compatible with the specific hose you are using. There are at several different hose types and hose end types.

The only negative I have heard about the accumulator is that one has to crank the engine a little longer to get it started if the unit is bad. My track car employs the factory fuel pump harness and relay. The engine will start after several idles weeks in about 4 or 5 seconds of cranking. After that it will start with less than 2 seconds of cranking.

You may be able to take the accumulator fuel line to someone that makes up hydraulic hose, ac hose, etc., and have the factory metal hose end swedged onto a new line. This is highly possible and will eliminate a lot of heartburn.

[frankc]

Turborat,

I'm looking for the AN-6 to 14mm fuel line adapters as well. All of the metric adapters I find when searching are the O-Ring type. Were you able to source the correct fittings from BAT?

Thanks,
Frank