RS sacrilege

[jdm61]

Ok....a question to irritate the Pelicans. Aside from being extremely rare and a prettyhot little car FOR THEIR TIME, why is everyone so infatuated with the 2.7RS, particularly when we are talking about clones? The numbers tell me that the performance is no better than your typical 3.2 Carrera, at least in a straight line and something like an '84 SC RS, a clone of which could be built from a beat up old Turbo tub with a minumum of body work, would leave it in the dust. Now this is assuming that you build the 2.7RS and the SC RS engines to original specs......same weight, but at least a 45 hp difference.....65 if you build the SC RS to rally engine specs. Other than the fact that the RS looks kinda cool, what am I missing?

[gulf908]

JDM,

As the actress said to the bishop,its all about feel.
The only way to explain is for you to find a co operative RS owner and DRIVE it !
If all you are looking at is facts and figures,then buy a big engined motorcycle.
...just my 0.02c worth...

Cheers,
Dennis

[450knotOffice]

It was a very light 911, even for it's day, and had excellent power (for it's day) so it was quick and light on its toes but my guess is the car's legend has taken on a life of its own.

[jdm61]

Originally posted by gulf908
JDM,

As the actress said to the bishop,its all about feel.
The only way to explain is for you to find a co operative RS owner and DRIVE it !
If all you are looking at is facts and figures,then buy a big engined motorcycle.
...just my 0.02c worth...

Cheers,
Dennis

Yeah, but at $200k a pop, who is going to be cooperative? lol. Its like the $250+ 1950's Les Pauls. When will you ever see a musician playing one of those live? Seems to me that it must be mostly nostalgia on the part of the RS clones. The reason i mentioned the SC RS is that it is pretty much the same type of car, but 10 years more advanced in the Porsche racing line and about half the price for a real one when compared to the RS 2.7.

[jdm61]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
It was a very light 911, even for it's day, and had excellent power (for it's day) so it was quick and light on its toes but my guess is the car's legend has taken on a life of its own.

Lot of the legend seems to come not from the RS, but from the RSR's. The street SC RS and the water cooled GT3 RS's are a lot closer in power, dimensions, etc to the cars that actually raced than even the lightweight RS was to the RSR's. To me, an RS is to the RSR's more like what a 930 was to the 934 and 935. Basic chassis is the same, but not even close to being the same car. I guess that I am really asking about the clones, since the real RS's have an incredible collectors value regardless of whether they were in the same league with the RSR's performance wise.

[randywebb]

Seems the SC/RS was meant to be more of a rally car, not a track car like the RS in '73

[jdm61]

Originally posted by randywebb
Seems the SC/RS was meant to be more of a rally car, not a track car like the RS in '73

True.....the race cars were used in rallys, but the street car is classified by PCA in the same class as the 993 turbo and 997S,among others.

[skinnerd]

the SC/RS is rarer than rare
and try replicating that engine
way more expensive i would think

RS's (and the replicas) are hundreds of pounds lighter than most of the cars you compare it to
that is where the advantage lies
for those that can exploit it, better braking, cornering and transitions are the rewards

[jdm61]

Originally posted by skinnerd
the SC/RS is rarer than rare
and try replicating that engine
way more expensive i would think

RS's (and the replicas) are hundreds of pounds lighter than most of the cars you compare it to
that is where the advantage lies
for those that can exploit it, better braking, cornering and transitions are the rewards

The SC RS weighs about the same as a 2.7 RS, but you are right about the engine,if you want to do it accurately. About like doing an "authentic" 3 liter RSR. the SC RS supposedly uses early style 935 heads. It's funny that the SC RS goes for about the same as a real minty 72-73 911S. I saw one SC RS that sold for $100,000. I guess that the post '73 one-off 911's are just starting to get stupidly priced like the early ones have been for a while. I remember reading an article in Excellence a few years back about the 2.4 L 911S and it said that if you wanted a real nice one, you better expect to pay over $25K. Wish i had bought about 10 of them...lol. My mechanic is restoring a '73 S racer back to original specs because even as a restoration, it is worth way too much to race any more.

[Wayne 962]

The 2.7RS is not a super car - there are many clones out there that have improved upon it's original horsepower and suspension. However, the mystique is what is driving the values up...

-Wayne

[livi]

Its a legend. Full of glamorous racing victories. At the time the car was outstanding in many aspects. In the same way several old Ferrari models stand out to their aficionados. Its become a machine of our dreams. The rather low numbers left in good condition and the outrageous price also contributes to legend building.

And as far as creating mystique and legends - the Porsche name is a top rank contender.

[89911]

Everything you have stated is true, even to the point that most 911's to some degree are overachievers compared to other cars that are available. Yet, it's not about 0-60 speed or horsepower output that lead me to a Porsche in the first place. I think people just plain like the RS and want one for themselves. The connection to the road the 911 gives hasn't been duplicated in any other car.

[javadog]

You have to drive an RS or two, before you really appreciate the cars. Not everything can be measured with a stop watch. The lightweights are really amazing in the way they feel and respond.

Having said that, I don't agree with the ridiculous prices increases over the last 5 years. They aren't that rare. I wouldn't buy one at the current prices.

JR

[k9handler]

looks cool...as you stated in your post. I really like how guys can keep them original. EVEN better are the guys who build the clone versions with 3.6 and 3.8 ltr engines...or backdate a 964 to look like a RS.

[ruf-porsche]

Which would you have a Real Rolex or a Fake Rolex?

[jdm61]

Originally posted by livi
Its a legend. Full of glamorous racing victories. At the time the car was outstanding in many aspects. In the same way several old Ferrari models stand out to their aficionados. Its become a machine of our dreams. The rather low numbers left in good condition and the outrageous price also contributes to legend building.

And as far as creating mystique and legends - the Porsche name is a top rank contender.

Point well taken about the F-cars, but remember......the F-cars that led the pricing insanity of the '80's were pretty much homologated race cars.like the Testarossa and GTO. Kind of the same vibe as the few street legal GT40's. I recall that the Daytona Spyder craze came a bit later after the market had already gone nuts. As for the Rolex comment, that is my point exactly. A lot of people ARE "building fake Rolexes" lol. Now I may be banished from this forum for saying this, but i think that the 3 liter RS and the IROC RSR are better looking cars(and they have more goodies on them like the 917 brakes, etc) than the original RS and if I was going to build a clone of one of the old 70's 011's, it would be on of those. I guess that I have just never gotten excited about the "duck tail" although i do like the front spoiler on all of those cars. To me, the RS was just an upgraded 911S that was built to homologate some of the parts that Porsche used on thir real race cars.

[fryardds]

Originally posted by livi
Its a legend. Full of glamorous racing victories. At the time the car was outstanding in many aspects. In the same way several old Ferrari models stand out to their aficionados. Its become a machine of our dreams. The rather low numbers left in good condition and the outrageous price also contributes to legend building.

And as far as creating mystique and legends - the Porsche name is a top rank contender.

Here it is summed up for me in a photo of the door of one of the first 500 homolagation RS cars. See those screws, those are there because a small, independant company decided to take a big gamble to go to the next level of racing with the 911. I won't bore you all with the story because you have heard it many times before.

That to me is why the RS is so special (as well as the driving experience )

[jdm61]

Originally posted by fryardds
Here it is summed up for me in a photo of the door of one of the first 500 homolagation RS cars. See those screws, those are there because a small, independant company decided to take a big gamble to go to the next level of racing with the 911. I won't bore you all with the story because you have heard it many times before.

That to me is why the RS is so special (as well as the driving experience )

I have never heard the story, so I am confused rather than bored.....lol. I was thinking that maybe the greatest legacy of the RS, RSR, S etc is that within a few years, Porsche had taken all that they had learned in racing in the late 60's and early 70's and were able to continue building cars that actually performed when many car manufacturers were being strangled by safety and emissions regs. I remember an article stating that although the US 930 gave up 35 hp to the Euro model because of emissions gear, the Corvette at the time actually had LESS horsepoer than a US spec 911SC. Do any of you guys remember what a "big deal" it was when the original new Vette came out in '84 with a whopping 245 hp? still 20 less than the emiisons strangled '78 930 and only 28 more than the '84 US spec Carrera with its puny little 190 cubic inch engine. Starting in '78, Porsche was consistantly hitting that magic 1 hp per cubic inch number that was the holy grail for the muscle car guys I knew AND meeting emissions standards. All this with an air cooled SOHC engine.

[Avery]

When you get into the realm of speculation, cost of an item is almost purely on what sort of investment value it has. If something cost $100,000 now and you think it will go up to $200,000 in 5 years, you will pay the $100,000. In 5 years, if your investment rises as predicted, you look like a genius. Trouble with speculation however, you can lose your shorts in a hurry. When the fad wears off, so will the value.

[donstevens]

As long as you are talking clones, one should build/buy whatever strikes their fancy. The 73RS is a legend and one can build a pretty nice clone at a reasonable price.

I prefer the IROC car. There is some decent footage of the original cars in the IROC DVD. In fact one thing that caught me eye was the steering wheel and shifter were what became a stock SC kit. To me, those were cool details that most people would overlook when creating a clone.
Those cars were raw, purpose built machines and that is what I think is cool.

Don