Quick rebuild double checks
 

Ok, I got my $1000 dollar box of parts in today, and before I get started I wanted to double check a few things with you guys.

What type of loctite do I use on the base of the headstuds? (where they go into the case)

And I want to make sure that I haven't confused the two oil pressure relief valve piston springs when I labeled them... The longer one goes on the bottom side of the case and the sorter one goes on the right hand side correct???

I installed the layshaft gear on the layshaft with new lock tabs.

After work I'm off to the hobby shop to use their press to install the two new chain gears and flywheel pilot bearing.

One more question... do I need to let my machine shop install the throw out bearing on the pressure plate or can I do it? A couple guys say you usually have to pry the TO bearing over the fingers on the pressure plate...sounds like it requires special tools...is this true?

Thanks guys... reassembly has "begun"..Dun Dun duuunnnnnnn...

Well I answered my own questions by making a few phone calls and looking through my manuals again.
The longer spring is the primary relief valve so it goes on the bottom.

Jon from EBS, said that I should use medium (blue) loctite on my head studs... Which I did. I got them all within 1/32" apart from each other as far as height goes. I noticed that the new steel studs wanted to go a bit deeper before bottoming out in the case. I really didn't even need a wrench I just tightened them with my hands until they bottomed out...that brought them 1/32" shorter than the top row...I figured that minute of a difference wouldn't hurt anything but I wasn't about to leave them loose!

I went to the hobby shop and used the press for free...it took my about 5 minutes to install my pilot bearing on my flywheel and the two chain gears on my layshaft.
Git it all back together and installed the layshaft and oil pump back into the case half. Torqued everything and bent down the new lock tabs. I used a 50/50 mixture of assembly lube/oil on the layshaft bearings.
I also installed the two chain guides on the left bank. Brown on bottom and black on top. I also reinstalled my oil pressure thermostat, sender and switch. I love it!
So excited...I also sat down with my manuals after I was done and re read everything to make sure I didn't forget anything.
I won't bother posting pics until I get the crank and rods back this weekend!

You mean to tell me that e can have a 50+ post thread about rod bolts but no one is going to say ANYTHING about my headstuds being only hand tight???

We want you to do this yourself and get confidence in yourself instead of pussyfooting about! HAHA, just kidding Lee.

I thought it was supposed to be the orange Loc-tite for the head studs...orange is the strongest, I think. The head studs should not be hard to get in, really. That means the threads on the studs and in the case are good. What should be hard is to try to unscrew them when the loc-tite has set.

Congrats and soon the car will be back on the road.

Incredible feeling first time you start it up with everything working right.

Paul

Thanks Paul...

Jon at EBS said use medium loctite, because you don't want to have to use special tools to remove them.

Like I said, if I had used a wrench to really tighten them up then they would have been maybe 3/16" shorter than the top row. I was really trying to keep them all the same height. I guess I am just depending on the loctite to keep them tight.

I guess all is well...
see ya Paul,
Lee

Oh no Leland, it's not like that at all! We're quite interested in your progress if I can speak for the masses.

Now, about the handtight thing: I have no problem with that at all. To honor the height spec, you've got to thread those in such that you have your deck-to-topthread height exact. The integrity of the weakest link is what matters...that must be the aluminium threads, no? And, if you did actually thread the studs in very tightly, you would only be putting excess stress on one side of the threads. Worse yet, that stress is on the lowerside for the case threads, topside for the stud threads: the same stress you will impose when you tighten up the whole assembly. So setting them up with Loctite sans these stresses can only help, I think.

Anyway that's my harebrained analysis, and I'm sticking by it until Warren or John post otherwise!

Jw

Hello

OK I need a picture.

Your case is alignebored and the stud threats are time sertet or do you go with helicoil ? The cylindercutout is flybored ?

What helicoil did you use ? Seflocking and min. 2D ? Did you tap the threat so they can´t run back ?

An old trick is to get some lead and fill the hole a bit up so that the studs will all sit in equal hight and then do the last job and use red high temperature loctite ( VW/ Audi ) and twist them with minimal 40-50 NM in.

For the intermediade shaft: Put the shaft in the fridge and the Gearwheel in the hot oilbath.

Grüsse

Roland,I have a '79 SC so I am not installing helicoils or timecerts.

You do have me worried that I inproperly installed the headstuds. I was told to use medium strength Loctite. either blue or red...I used blue. And I definately didn't torque them down. I never thought of putting anything in the holes to build up a base. Hmmmmm... now what to do, I don't want to damage them if I have to remove the suckers. Damnit,...i didn't see anything anywhere that shows exactly how to properly install the headstuds.
Damnit, damnit, damnit...

wow, are the swear filters off now?

anyway, just trying to get rid of a post of someone's...won't name anyone!

I don't think you can torque them down??? Granted, Roland has a lot more experience than I do, but I would say that if you torqued them down you would be putting undue stress on the case.

Paul

While putting lead in the holes might be helpful somehow, I believe it is not a necessary procedure. Also, the book calls for them to all be installed at the correct height, so that's what you do, rather than torquing them down. FWIW, I'd agree that torquing them down could only damage them. Just achieve the height spec, and quit worrying.

Don't know whether you want to worry about the loctite issue, but I'd heard that the red loctite is recommended. On P 121 of my Bruce Anderson book he states "These (head studs)should be installed with high-strength loctite."

------------------
'83 SC

bump

Double damnit...I'm gonna take 'em back out and use red (High Strength) loctite.

Damnit, damnit, damnit... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/frown.gif

Leland, I would not take them out because I am convinced it does not matter. I would go by Jon's advice (they gave me plenty and it was good). This is one of those things that could be argued endlessly, and in the end, the studs would still be in place.
Tom
p.s. concentrate on rocker shaft installation - that is the one area I had trouble with after my rebuild. Not aligned correctly and you will get nice little oil leaks down on the exchangers.

Leland, the important thing which isn't clear to me wether you did it or not. Is the studs have a length spec that they should be installed to. At least on my earlier engine they did. Did you install them to that spec or just screw them in all the way? You need to make sure they are all the correct length or when it comes time to put the heads back on you may have problems. Personally I used the red loctite, but if EBS recommends the blue there probably isn't a problem with that.

[This message has been edited by mackgoo (edited 06-01-2001).]

Hello

Sorry about the confusion, my mistake, the filling and HD Loctite is only needed on the 2,7 cases repaired with helicoil inserts.

Your 930 case doesn´t need so much work and medium Loctite is eventually ok. Tourqing ain´t necessery.

Just make sure you cleaned the threads and test how much tourque you need to loose by loctiting a probe nut. Anything abouve 40 NM is OK. If they brake loose under 35 NM you better redo with a higher grade loctite.

Loctite needs sometimes longer then 24 hours for full secure on those long threads. Some hot air speeds up at some types. Read the manual or call the loctite service.

Just make sure they will not come loose under heat or several years later.

Depending on your studs make sure the correct end is in the case.

For seting the correct hight I made a selfmade tool.

You just need a tube with the correct hight minus the nut hight. Then screw all in, remove the nut and reuse the tube and nut. For 2,7 it´s a bit more tricky.

Hight does matter.

If they stand out to far you will need a thicker washer under the headnuts and you have less threads in the engine case. If they are to far in you won a replay.

Just ask again are the bores messured and did you checked all the bearings for correct size ?


Grüsse

Sorry for the delay guys...I've been up in Boise for the weekend.
Thanks for the advice guys I do feel better now. I measured the tops reow of studs that i didn't remove, and then just screwed the new bottom studs in to the same height. (within 1/32"). I will do as you suggest Roland about seeing if they loosen prematurely.

***Update*** ***Update*** ***Update***

Just got my crank, rods, pistons, flywheel and pressure plate back from the machine shop. Everything looks good...will start cleaning out the oil passages on the crank tomorrow. One thing to note... I was really suprised about how much material he had to remove from the pistons to get them to all weigh the same. A couple of them were WAY heavier than the others.

This week the case is going back together.

Thanks again!