Optima or Odyssey

[88 Club Sport]

I've read the threads but not seen a recent one so I thought I'd check to see how they are holding up out there.

I had made my decission to go with the Optima Redtop 75/25 but when I called Sears (buddy bought one there a year ago) they said they stopped selling them....."a very high return rate"

Let me know your feedback please....thanks.

[MotoSook]

I've had an Optima....and now I have an Odyssey. About the same price...and less weight. My Optima dead from my neglect (didn't always leave it charging). Odyssey says if you leave the battery fully charged it doesn't need tending....we'll see. I may go start up the Carrera this weekend after about a month in storage.

[MOMO3.2]

88 CS:

It all depnds on your application of course, but I think I have had my diminutive Odyssey PC680 in my 87 Carrera for 3 years now. It is going as strong as ever. It is hard to beat at 12lbs.

I would not want the PC680 in cold weather (I live in SoCal), but many of Odyssey's larger batteries should do the trick. Remember, the dry cell batteries need a "special" charger.

Mike

[MotoSook]

I have started my Carrera when the ambient temp was between 35-40 deg. F ... I wasn't sure the little Odyssey 680 would be up to the task the first time. It cranked my Carrera over like there was a 70 lbs Bosch battery in the front.

As for charging, I seem to recall the Odyssey manual indicating that the charge had to be at least 1.5 Volts....or something about minimal voltage for charging. So there may not be anything special about it...so long as you don't does a trickle charger.

After I initially installed my 680, I left it connected in my Carrera for a while, and it drained. I couldn't start the car, but I used my Craftsman 2/10 AMPS charger on it at the 10AMPS setting, and it worked fine.

[MOMO3.2]

Souk:

My understanding is that a standard charge as you describe may charge the Odyssey enough to start the car, but the alternator will need to charge the battery fully. It is NOT a good idea to tax your alternator like that.

So, yes, it is a good idea to buy one of the chagers that will properly (and quickly) charge a dry cell.

The text below is from Odyssey's site:

Mike

Proper Charger Selection

A critical factor in the proper use of a rechargeable battery is charging. Inadequate or improper charging is the most common cause of premature failure of rechargeable lead acid batteries.

Small, portable automotive chargers may be used to charge your ODYSSEY® battery. These chargers are essentially designed to bring a discharged battery to a state of charge (SOC) that is high enough to crank an engine. Once this is successfully accomplished it is up to the engine alternator to fully charge the battery. It is important to keep this design philosophy in mind when using this type of charger.

There is another class of chargers that is designed specifically to maintain the battery in a high state of charge. These chargers, such as the 1.25 amp Battery Tender® from Deltran are not capable of charging a deeply discharged ODYSSEY® battery. This is due to the fact that these chargers have very low output power. They should only be used either to continuously compensate for parasitic losses or to maintain a trickle charge on a fully charged stored battery.

(A) Selecting the right charger for your battery

Small portable automotive chargers can also be used, as long as certain suitability criteria are met. Qualifying these chargers for your ODYSSEY® battery is a simple two-step process.

Step 1 - Charger output voltage

Determining the charger output voltage is the most important step in the charger qualification process. If the voltage output from the charger is less than 14.2V or more than 15V for a 12V battery do not use the charger. This output voltage is measured on the battery terminals with the charger charging, the voltage is steady and the output current has begun to decline. For 24V battery systems the charger output voltage should be between 28.4V and 30V. If the charger output voltage falls within these voltage limits when the battery approaches a fully charged state, low output current, proceed to Step 2; otherwise pick another charger.

Step 2 - Charger type — automatic or manual

The two broad types of small, portable chargers available today are classified as either automatic or manual. Automatic chargers can be further classified as those that charge the battery up to a certain voltage and then shut off and those that charge the battery up to a certain voltage and then switch to a lower float (trickle) voltage.

An example of the first type of automatic charger is one that charges a battery up to 14.5V, then immediately shuts off. An example of the second type of automatic charger would bring the battery up to 14.5V then switch to a float (trickle) voltage of 13.6V; it will stay at that level indefinitely. The second type of automatic charger is preferred as the first type of charger is likely to undercharge the battery.

A manual charger typically puts out a single voltage and has to be manually switched off to prevent battery overcharge. Should you choose to use a manual charger with your ODYSSEY® battery, do not exceed charge times suggested in Table III below.

(B) Selecting battery type on your charger output

While it is not possible to cover every type of battery charger available today in a product guide such as this, this section will try to give the ODYSSEY® battery user some general charger usage guidelines to follow, after the charger has been qualified for use with this battery.

In general, do not use either the gel cell or maintenance free setting, if provided on your charger. Choose the deep cycle option, should there be one on your charger. Table III below provides suggestions on charge times based on charger currents.

Table III: Suggested charge times for ODYSSEY® batteries


Model
Charge time for 100% discharged battery

10A charger
20A charger

PC 310
48 minutes 24 minutes
PC 535
1.5 hour 45 minutes
PC 545
1.5 hour 45 minutes
PC 625
2 hour 1 hour
PC 680
2 hour 1 hour
PC 925
2.5 hour 1.25 hour
PC 1200
4 hour 2 hour
PC 1700
7 hour 3.5 hour
PC 2150 9 hour 4.5 hour



Note that the charge times recommended in Table III are based on an assumption that the ODYSSEY® battery is fully discharged with an open circuit voltage of 11.6 volts. If the battery is only partially discharged the charge times should be appropriately reduced.

Sealed Rechargeable DrycellTM - Deep Cycle Batteries

[Dave Nordhoff]

4 years with a 680 and it's still going strong. Plus it's 35 pounds saved.

Dave

[MOMO3.2]

I have the ACI BCSC 7a charger. It is compact & lightweight. It will charge the battery from dead to full in 1hr, 45 min. It also switches from full charge to trickle automaically and can be left attached to the battery indefinitely. I keep it in the trunk just in case.

Mike

[MotoSook]

Mike,

I had the voltage mixed in my head with the amperage ("at least 1.5 amps, not volts). Thanks for posting the text from Odyssey.

My Craftman charger charges at 10 amps max...as the battery nears full charge it throttles back the current toward trickle (it's got an amp meter that you can view to determine current output). So I think I'm safe.

It appears the two concerns are the voltage (14.2-15 volts) and current, but I don't read in those statements that there is anything special to one of their chargers. Even my float charger that I got from Harbor Freight will do 1.5 amps at 14.75 volts. It holds current, but ramps the voltage. I have watched it with a meter at the posts That appears to be OK by their description. I've never tried to fully charge a dead battery with a trickle/float charger...maybe that's what they are warming people against because it would require further charging by the alternator.

Do they sell a charger these days that shuts off at 14.5 volts regardless of current flow? I aways assumed that all chargers (not the trickle maintainers) shut off on current or switch to a trickle based on current flow.

Anyhow, what I read in their text doesn't tell me anything special about their charger, just that you want to fully charge the battery before use and that you won't be able to fully charge a battery with a float charger which has low current output.

[88 Club Sport]

The way I understand it, the concern is not keeping a full battery charged when not in use but more so the charging of a completely depleted battery....right?

So, if one uses a small trickle when the car is not in use, it should nver be depleted and hence the problem should not exist.....right?

[MotoSook]

I'd say you are right. So long as your charger toggles on and off as need.

The more I read the Odyssey text, the more I think it's just a bunch of marketing BS. Who makes chargers that fit their "bad" charger description?

Edit: Hey Man! Nice bikes! I have a '93 SuperSport...and have always kept an eye out for a good RD deal!

[dfink]

I just had a fellow competitor point out the battery he bought after I showed what I bought. Didn't know these existed.

http://www.braillebatteries.com/

He got the B106 at 6.6lbs

[MotoSook]

Those are nice specs for the Braille. They're spendy though.


Here's where I got my Odyssey:

http://www.gotbatteries.com/items.asp?params=batteries/SLA/1/Enersys/Odyssey%20PC680T/37L105S4/SL105/37L105S4

And they are in Denver!

[MotoSook]

It's been bugging me about their charger text...I know it's a bit OCD of me...I'm like that sometimes.

The two chargers that are recommended by the site I linked to earlier has the following spec for their "sealed lead acid battery charger."

Float Voltage/ Fast Voltage/Amps
13.5/14.7/2
13.5/14.7/2


The BCSC 7a that Mike has is:

12 Volts, 7 Amp Constant Current

And it:

Super Charger electronically monitors battery voltage and shuts off when voltage reading indicates battery is fully charged and then converts to “True Float Mode” and maintains the fully charged battery.

Source: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/accessories/aci.htm



So I really don't see anything special about the chargers.

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by MOMO3.2

A critical factor in the proper use of a rechargeable battery is charging.

Inadequate or improper charging is the most common cause of premature failure of rechargeable lead acid batteries.

Small, portable automotive chargers may be used to charge your ODYSSEY® battery. These chargers are essentially designed to bring a discharged battery to a state of charge (SOC) that is high enough to crank an engine. Once this is successfully accomplished it is up to the engine alternator to fully charge the battery. It is important to keep this design philosophy in mind when using this type of charger. [/I]

tilt... I disagree



Car alternators don't achieve max voltage available from the battery in my experience. A decent home charger will allow your alternator to keep the battery at maybe .1-.2v more when driving than if it was only topped off by the car alternator. It's easier for a car alternator to keep the battery topped off than getting it to achieve max battery charge.

It seems part of a car alternator is making them cheap and sacrifice max and operational amps to help them stay cool. If you really want to work a car alternator try charging an old almost dead battery after getting a jump. The crap we use probably can't handle more than 40% of max amps beyond a few minutes.

also... don't know what kind of battery you use, but the main concern when charging is heat. If you can feel heat when charging it's charging too fast. I've never read about one that is supposed to charge when warm.

btw... sometimes, under circumstance, I'll use the "starting"/high amp side of the switch. I'll do it for a brief time, then stop, on, off, on, etc. If it's summer time duration will be less than winter time. Main issue is to keep the battery from getting warm.


above only my routine

[RoninLB]

how's this for entertainment







http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batterylifeExtend.php


Solargizer is the only one of its kind in the world. It is not a battery charger, but a proven, patented electronic device designed to eliminate the #1 cause of battery problems & failures - sulfation. Whether you deal with aircraft, ground equipment, or virtually any other type of vehicle,
Solargizer will dramatically extend the like of your battery, increaseperformance efficiency, reduce recharge time, extend battery capacity so your battery runs longer between charges, and even maintain a charge indefinitely no matter how long your aircraft or vehicle sits unused.

Solargizer is small, weatherproof, and easy to install. Because it keeps batteries in optimum working condition, the Solargizer system helps reduce downtime, battery maintenance and replacement costs. And it even protects our environment by reducing the number of batteries needlessly discarded each & every year.

Description Part No. Price Buy
SOLARGIZER 12V W/CLAMPS 11-11690 $115.95
SOLARGIZER 12V W/RECEPTACLE 11-11691 $146.95
SOLARGIZER 24V W/LUGS 11-11692 $267.95

[rnln]

How many times max did you ever crank it continuously? I just affraid when you have starting problem, cranking your car 6, 7 times => another problem = battery dead.

Originally Posted by Dave Nordhoff

4 years with a 680 and it's still going strong. Plus it's 35 pounds saved.

Dave

[rnln]

What special? Can't you just bring it to autozone to charge it? If you are correct, maybe that's why mine is gone.

Originally Posted by MOMO3.2

88 CS:

It all depnds on your application of course, but I think I have had my diminutive Odyssey PC680 in my 87 Carrera for 3 years now. It is going as strong as ever. It is hard to beat at 12lbs.

I would not want the PC680 in cold weather (I live in SoCal), but many of Odyssey's larger batteries should do the trick. Remember, the dry cell batteries need a "special" charger.

Mike

[dfink]

Perhaps I am missing something in the discussion. Appears to me they are just saying that if your battery is dead you need a charger with a decent output to get it back. A maintenance charger won't do it. If all you want to do it is keep it up then the maintenance charger is fine. Am I missing something.
I think the optima is a great battery. Had mine for two or three years. Even cooked it once with a faulty regulator. Who says you can't boil out a sealed battery. It still works great. I have ran it down multiple time to point the car won't start by leaving something turned on. Put on a decent charger or jump start the car and let the car charger do it. Has come back everytime. Best practice is to charge it up then disconnect it.

[88 Club Sport]

Souk, I love the Duc, have been tempted to sell it over the years but I have no idea what I'd get. I see it as the ealry 911 of motorcycles. RD's are starting to go up......$2k or more for a good one. RZ's are more with RD/RZ 500's going for as much as my 78 911!!!

Anyway, back to the topic. Optima or Odyssey

[88 Club Sport]

This one is for you souk:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-RZ500RN-1GE-1985-RZ500-MINT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6718QQihZ020QQitem Z300290433802QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW