Is this insane?

[ZV8888]

Hi All,

I have the usual oil leak that I suspect is coming from the oil pressure sensor / oil thermostat seal / oil breather pipe / oil breather housing. It would appear that I must drop the engine of my 1978 sc in order to get access to replace these parts.

These faults are common and repetitive so I was considering cutting a hole in the body between the back seats and the engine bay to get access to change these parts. Has anyone else done such a potentially stupid thing? I'm sure I could tidy it up nice afterwards and have nice hinged access flap that locks into place.

I'm sure I will regret putting such an insane question to the group and I am willing to accept the scorn that I suspect I will get in response, but, hey, such is life.

Regards & Thanks
ZV8888

[GothingNC]

Can it be reached with a partial engine drop?

[ZV8888]

I think some of it can, but I'm pretty sure that to do 'all' the bits, it will have to come right down.

[felix_browne]

I think that at one point TRE was working something like this into a customers car. Might be worth looking into to see how they did it if they ended up going this route.

[ZV8888]

I can't trace TRE on the forum search .... do you have another reference?

[ossiblue]

User name is TRE Cup. He'll probably read your post and respond before you do a search.

[sailchef]

I've thought about doing the same thing.

[euro911sc]

Its been done on race cars. One street car I saw had it done as well. One issue is how you keep the engine sound pad intact. It would be possible to cut out the rear and replace with AL panel and then cut the sound pad to fit the hole. Second issue, with no cage you will be loosing a lot of rigidity in that section of the car. Not sure I would under take that unless I had some welded in pipes to keep the torsional stiffness of the chassis in line.

*shrug*

Engine drop is no big deal... partial is even simpler!

-Michael

[runfaster]

I would just drop the engine...It is not that hard.

[Turboo934]

Just remove the intake, it would have to be removed anyway.

[sailchef]

Originally Posted by Turboo934

Just remove the intake, it would have to be removed anyway.

Not true, after an engine drop I replaced all of the above with the intake in place. The breather gasket was a little tight but not a big problem.

[kmhemi]

I just had the same oil leak on my 78. They say you can just do a partial drop (EASY) and lean over the top and reach everything to fix it. My back isnt very good and I'm not very flexible so I had to remove the CIS as well. I could probably do it now with just a partail drop since I know where everything is but I had never done it before. If I remember right I think I had to drop the motor a little to lift the CIS high enough to pull it off the intake studs and remove it. I wanted to replace my intake boots and injector O rings anyway.

[stevemfr]

A full engine R&R on these cars by an experienced mechanic is done in 3 hrs. easy. So you're not experienced and will take longer. Or you do a partial drop as suggested above. You will still spend nearly as much time removing interior bits, cutting and patching as doing it correctly - so do it right and don't butcher your car.

Race cars don't often have a fixed package shelf/rear seat area anymore for all sorts of reasons - but certainly NOT to get to the front of the motor more easily.

[ZV8888]

OK thanks for the advice.

Now my plan of action is as follows:

1. Do a partial drop
1.1 Remove the air tunnel on the top of the CIS
1.2 See if I can manage to change at least the oil pressure sensor
1.3 Review the oil leak situation for a few days - If all OK then happy days

2. Get my friendly mechanic (George McMillan in Northern Ireland) to drop the engine for me
2.1 .... at least i'll learn how to do it right
2.2 Fit everything I can myself
2.3 Get help from George on stuff that is tricky
2.4 Get George to put the engine back in place (again learning how to do it right)

From my research, if / when the engine is removed I am led to understand that I should also consider the following work:

Check / adjust / replace the following:
* Check valve clearance (RPM related tap-tap-tap...)
* Oil cooler seals Top (999-704-172-50-M213)
* Oil cooler seal Bottom (999-704-173-50-M213)
* Replace Flywheel seal (999-113-426-41-M204)
* Replace Pulley seal, No 8 Bearing (999-113-290-41-M104)
* Pulley o-ring (999-707-285-41-M213)

Am I on the right track or getting carried away?

If I was to cut the hole in the back, I was most concerned about the body rigidity as euro911sc pointed out and I don't fancy welding bars in to re-strengthen the car.

There are very few alternatives to doing a job right .....

[JeremyD]

An engine drop seems daunting - but after your first one - you'll wonder what all the worry was about.

The first one I did in under 4 hours - the 2nd one was less than 1/2 that. Be methodical - make yourself a checklist. Get a friend to help.

[sc_rufctr]

x2... I drop my engine every 12 months (always in April) to do an extensive service, valve adjust/check, clean and detail.

I have built a special "jack" to make the job easier and I designed it so that one man can lower the engine. But you can get jack adapters from our host that converts a regular floor jack.

It's hard work but worth the effort...

The biggest problem is getting the car high enough to get the engine/transmission down and out.

[euro911sc]

Check / adjust / replace the following:
* Check valve clearance (RPM related tap-tap-tap...)
* Oil cooler seals Top (999-704-172-50-M213)
* Oil cooler seal Bottom (999-704-173-50-M213)
* Replace Flywheel seal (999-113-426-41-M204)
* Replace Pulley seal, No 8 Bearing (999-113-290-41-M104)
* Pulley o-ring (999-707-285-41-M213)

I think you went overboard there Skip all the seals unless you can say for sure that they are actually leaking. Getting a seal right when the case is not split can cause more leaks than you had to start with. You need to find out where your leaks are 1st. If you pull the engine/trans I might look at the following (these are ideas not must dos):

* Check the clutch and throwout bearing when you separate the trans/engine
* Drain and replace trans fluid (Open fill hole FIRST just in case you cant, don't drain it)
* Check/adjust the valves
* Check all head studs (especially the lower ones)
* Check static valve timing if you are concerned about that
* Good time to do the Carrera chain tensioner update
* Check/adjust throttle body to ensure it is WIDE open at the stops. When it is all back in make sure it still goes wide open when the pedal is on the floor.
* Replace all your vacuum hoses. ($10US for 3ft at a VW dealer gets you a direct match hose)
* Take your injectors out and and get them cleaned
* Replace the Injector O rings
* Clean the hell out of everything
* If you do take the oil cooler off to replace the seals then send it out to be ultrasonically cleaned and pressure tested. Could be your leak is there *shrug*
* If you plan on ever replacing the oil return tubes... its a lot easier with the engine out of the car.
* If you want to powder coat your sheet metal now is the time. Unless it is showing rust I might not bother.
* Clean distributor and check/adjust distributor shaft play (buy a new gear pin from Pelican and a 912 distributor parts kit from Stoddard for washers)
* Replace any cracked or abused rubber hoses

So, as you can see, the list is fairly short Most of the above list is do once stuff and not normal for every time you drop the engine. Some you do not have to do a drop to complete, but it is just easier.

Enjoy!! Take your time pulling the engine. It is really not a big deal. Just make sure you have two tags for each connection. I just label them with letters so I can re-connect them easily when I re-install.

Best regards,

Michael

[ZV8888]

Yes the full drop does seem daunting, but it is something I should probably tackle. As JeremyD says, once you get the first one out of the way it gets a lot easier. Same for most things I suppose. I'll be checking euro911sc list too. Thanks for all the advice. It'll be a week or so before I get the parts together, but I'll report back in a couple of weeks.