PCA Clubrace Rule Clarification (MSD)

trentwat · 03-04-2009, 07:35 AM

Those in the know,

I was considering installing an MSD Ignition setup to get better fuel economy and improved mid-range power performance. While I am not yet at a point where I would race my car, I am now trying to pay attention to the future before making too many mods. Is an MSD ignition set up allowed in the PCA "Stock Class"?

http://www.pca.org/clubrace/docs/08%20Rule%20Book.pdf

The following are from the "Stock Class" rules section:

M. Any ignition trigger which uses a standard distributor with stock style cap and rotor to deliver the
charge to the appropriate cylinder is permitted.
N. Valve spring retainers and clips are free.
O. Any spark coil and CD unit is allowed, so long as it is not capable of changing ignition timing or offer
any other performance advantage. The stock engine revolution limiter and function must be retained .

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

When you say 'MSD ignition setup' what parts are you wanting to change? just the CDI box?

zotman72 · 03-04-2009, 09:31 AM

No MSD is not a stock ignition replacement option. Such a change would probably bump you up one class. Contact via email the PCA national scruts and they will set you straight. Several are on this board. HTH

Dixie · Dixie's Garage

I think it would be legal. But why not simply ask your PCA club-race chair? That way you have an answer, not internet opinions.

zotman72 · 03-04-2009, 01:40 PM

From the 2008 Rulebook off the PCA website.
Any spark coil and CD unit is allowed as long as it is not capable of changing ignition timing or offer any other performance advantage. The stock engine revolution limiter and function must be retained.
Clearly a MSD (multiple spark discharge) device IMHO would fall outside of this rule. The Club Race chair has nothing to do with approval or not, it is the national scrutineers at the race.

vmax · 03-04-2009, 04:35 PM

You need to email Donna Amico. She is the Rules and Technical person. She can tell you if it is legal or not. She writes the rule book.

donnaamico@comcast.net

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

If its just the box, I would think legal also.

ipapilot · 03-04-2009, 06:35 PM

What slides by the scruts versus what is legal are quite different as most of us know. Definitely email Donna Amico as Doug suggested above, though I am 99.9% sure I remember it being a prepared mod when I was contemplating the same move...

Eagledriver · 03-04-2009, 09:21 PM

What this rule should tell you is that an MSD ignition will not improve your engine performance over the stock system. Most of us switch to MSD or other ignition boxes after our stock box fails. We do it because it's cheaper than the stock box and we can set the rev limit we want. As far as I know it's legal.

-Andy

TroyN · 03-05-2009, 05:38 AM

Yup, the MSD box doesn't change timing, it's still controlled purely by the distributor.

TroyN · 03-05-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagledriver

What this rule should tell you is that an MSD ignition will not improve your engine performance over the stock system. Most of us switch to MSD or other ignition boxes after our stock box fails. We do it because it's cheaper than the stock box and we can set the rev limit we want. As far as I know it's legal.

-Andy

MSD should improve low to mid-range performance, where it's delivering multiple sparks. At higher RPMs it only delivers single sparks so same as stock.

zotman72 · 03-05-2009, 06:06 AM

Guys, speculation on whether MSD improves or not, it is up to PCA scrutineers to decide (e.g. Ms Amico). FWIW PCA club racing in the stock classes is not a venue for those expecting wiggle room and reasonable technical review of similar components (MSD vs CD vs Permatune). For example, PCA made me go get a 5th gear from Europe ($$$$$$$$$$$$$) for my 915 SC gearbox to be legal as an euro SC. Who ever uses 5th gear racing? Do they check other folks 915 gearboxs in E class? Of course they do.... yeah right.

arrivederci · 03-05-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zotman72

Guys, speculation on whether MSD improves or not, it is up to PCA scrutineers to decide (e.g. Ms Amico). FWIW PCA club racing in the stock classes is not a venue for those expecting wiggle room and reasonable technical review of similar components (MSD vs CD vs Permatune). For example, PCA made me go get a 5th gear from Europe ($$$$$$$$$$$$$) for my 915 SC gearbox to be legal as an euro SC. Who ever uses 5th gear racing? Do they check other folks 915 gearboxs in E class? Of course they do.... yeah right.

You're not sour about that or anything, eh Bill?

trentwat · 03-16-2009, 02:36 PM

Followed the advice and went to Donna Amico. Here's what she said:

"The answer is that the MSD 6A, without rev limiter, is allowed in stock. The MSD 6AL (with integral adjustable rev limiter) is not."

zotman72 · 03-16-2009, 05:24 PM

Yep that is right. New change for 2009. Saw several PCA stock class racers with MSDs at Texas World Speedway in Texas this past weekend. I was wrong. Bet they will not be checking rev limiters, --if they even know what one looks like ..... YMMV

C4 Pazzo · 03-17-2009, 09:55 AM

I don't understand why the adjustable limiter of the 6AL is a problem. One can install a rev limiting rotor with different limits - or is that forbidden, too?

vmax · 03-17-2009, 10:32 AM

A rev limiting rotor on a USA SC would be an illegal mod-they did not come with them stock.

The thing is most guys pull the factory USA SC rev limiter and run without one.
-technically illegal

I run a prepared US SC and use the MSD 6AL, it is legal to use in prepared.

I really think the best thing would be to allow the MSD 6AL ( with limiter) to be allowed in stock, and state in the rules what rev limit chip should be required for the car/engine. The stock rev limit chip would be very easy to check as it plugs into the MSD unit.

trentwat · 03-26-2009, 04:03 PM

I've seen the MSD "block" mounted in various locations -even inside the cabin. Anyone have recommendations for a location inside the engine compartment?