Newbie question...brown oil in oil filler tube..PLEASE HELP

[heliboytim]

Hi there,

911 Carrera 4 cab 2001 3.4 44000 miles

Having recently thrown the fan belt off and driven a little to far (stopped when notices water in temp in red zone) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=8

I have had a new belt and 3 new torsioners fitted

PROBLEM.......I have a very small amount of brown liquid (yes I know water/oil ) in the oil filler pipe. I have cleaned it several times and keeps coming back. After driven reasonably hard there is also condensation in the oil filler tube when opened, and car is still warm. Oil from dipstick is normal.

The water temp is steady on the gauge, the acceleration is smooth, no reduction in power, no knocking noises from engine. Car seems to drive as before

I'm assuming a small crack in the gasket ? Is it safe to drive and what should i do ?

I have driven nearly 800 miles since the belt replaced and engine is no different.

Yes I know I was a dumwit to keep driving after the belt came off, I though the alternator had just failed .

Any advice really appreciated

Thanks

[crustychief]

Sounds like coolant is getting into your oil. I would stop driving the car, you got it hot and something either blew or worse, something warped, the engine parts don't do well when they are lubricated with armor all.

[jurhip]

Is it a light brown emulsified looking mixture. Depending on where you live, it could be condensation which will form in the oil system after shutdown. However, this boils away while running and can tend to collect at the high points (filler cap).

Best path forward - Warm you car to operating temperature, then carefully drain oil - it will be hot. If you see emulsified oil and/or coolant, get it checked out. Also - has your coolant level dropped (this is sometimes hard to pinpoint if only small quantities are lost).

Unless you sat in the red for a long time, I wouldn't expect damage, but you can never be sure.

[heliboytim]

Yes it is a light brown fluid, I live in the UK when moisture content is not all that high, and temperatures at the moment are around 3-10 degrees centigrade.

The coolant level has been a bit random in its levels. When the car is cold there is a small amount of water in the tank though when it is is warm (and I have undon the cap and looked and the level it is full) I have had to fill it up though recently which makes me think I have a leak into the gasket.

If the dipstick oil is clear do I still need to do a drain ?

Thanks so much for your help so far...really appreciate from cold UK !

[RoninLB]

probably condensaton


auto parts store should have a test kit for anti-freeze in oil

[ToddM]

I'd recommend selling the car back to the dealer asap or setting it on fire for insurance money

[heliboytim]

Originally Posted by ToddM

I'd recommend selling the car back to the dealer asap or setting it on fire for insurance money

Well I bought it private so thats no good, re your second idea...I may mull it over....will be a lot cheaper !!!!!

Will try and get that kit, thks

[heliboytim]

Thank you ruf-porshe.

Am I correct in saying that even if the engine oil is not contaminated there could still be leak of water into the gasket causing the brown/oily build up ?

[ruf-porsche]

Originally Posted by heliboytim

Thank you ruf-porshe.

Am I correct in saying that even if the engine oil is not contaminated there could still be leak of water into the gasket causing the brown/oily build up ?

Nope, you should not have any leak of coolant and water. The water in the oil tank is from condensation like RoninLB suggested.

However, since you did hit the redzone on the temp gauge it will be a good idea to bring it in to verify that you didn't do any damage such as warping the heads.

[MRM]

I am sorry to tell you that you may have much larger problems than you imagine. Someone much more knowledgable than me will chime in with the actual explaination, but when you throw off a fan belt, the real issue isn't the oil temps (which is what triggers the engine overheating light) it is the cylinder head temps. Way before the engine overheats, the combustion chamber and all the really vital goodies will overheat, probably cracking your block. That accounts for the liquid in your oil. If this is what it is, running your engine with the oil/coolant/water/whatever mix will ruin your engine, if it isn't already totally shot by now. I would recommend not starting it again until a mechanic looks it over and tells you what happened.

You can do a search here for similar thread, there have been several over the years. The point is that once the alternator light comes on, you have to stop the car imediately, overheating the engine is not the issue. Driving without the fan for any amount of time can ruin the whole engine.

[ruf-porsche]

If you drain the oil, place it in a clear container so you can observe if you have any coolant mix with the oil. Remember oil float on top of water so look at the bottom of the container and see if you can see any difference at the bottom. Another quick way to see if you have any coolant in the oil is to check your dipstick. If it is reading high for no good reason then water is getting into areas it shouldn't be going.

[jurhip]

but when you throw off a fan belt, the real issue isn't the oil temps (which is what triggers the engine overheating light) it is the cylinder head temps.

996 and all water cooled cars used coolant water temperature sensors. This provides a more accurate measure of engine temp. Its really hard to say without knowing how long you ran it. An oil drain is something that is cheap and can tell you a lot.

[MRM]

Originally Posted by jurhip

996 and all water cooled cars used coolant water temperature sensors. This provides a more accurate measure of engine temp. Its really hard to say without knowing how long you ran it. An oil drain is something that is cheap and can tell you a lot.

Porsche makes water cooled cars? What are you going to tell me next? The Red Sox won a World Series?

[ruf-porsche]

Originally Posted by MRM

Porsche makes water cooled cars? What are you going to tell me next? The Red Sox won a World Series?

Red Sox winning a World Series is believable, but the CUBS winning a World Series now that is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

[heliboytim]

Guys thanks for all your comments. So just to confirm if the drain shows no contamination I have nothing to worry about ? i.e. ignore the very small build up of brown fluid ?

Is there anyway water can get in the cylinders and not show up in the sample from the oil ?

If the oil sample is completely clear is it just condensation from the engine ?

Sorry for all the questions but I have been quoted $3500 (remember I'm from expensive UK) for a new head gasket and associated work so your advice is much appreciated. Advice was recieved over the phone (mechanic not seen car yet)

[RoninLB]

get the test kit

[Scott Douglas]

From the sounds of it I'd say it's condensation, similar to what the 912 guys call mayonaise in their oil fill tanks.
I had a BMW that had a crack in the head (inherent design flaw, thin casting) which was a water leak into a non-pressure oil gallery up on the top of the head. It showed up as a 'milkshake' on the dip stick. I think if your dip stick is showing good clean oil all you've got is condensation forming in the fill tube.
What I'd like to know is, where in the UK is it dry?

[RoninLB]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

What I'd like to know is, where in the UK is it dry?

does palm trees at the S tip of England count?

[RSTarga]

Normally water in the oil shows up as a whitish emulsified oil on your dipstick, not brown. I'd never heard of the test kits but try one. The other test we used to do (pre catalytic converters) was to put your hand very close to the tip of the exhaust while the car is running semi cupping the exhaust, do you have water on your hand? Also coolant has a distinct sweet smell, can you smell anything?
I think that you are ok if stopped it soon enough. If the heads had overheated you would have had some run on after you stopped the engine. Change the oil and watch your coolant level.

[Por_sha911]

If you have water in your oil you would see a whitish foam all over your dip stick. Even if the dip stick doesn't show foaming, you may have water seeping into a combustion chamber rather than an oil passage. If the leak is slow enough, the water would burn off rather than exit into the oil. (Ask me how I know ) The oil will look clear and clean but you will be losing coolant without any signs of leakage or oil contamination.

Pressure testing the coolant system will tell you if it is leaking (either to the outside or into the block) but be sure to not start the car if the coolant level is going down until you know where it went.