Need some swaying
 

Hello - I wanted to get your opinion on sway bars for my 69T. Since my car was european delivered it did not come with any sway bars and I want to install them. Question is should I just install the front 15mm bar only or both front and rear? I'm not going to track the car or autocross just cruise and spirited driving.

I will be using wider 7" rims +23 offset and 205/60/15 tires and lower the car just a tad.

Thanks in advance.

Greatings, it is not that it is a euro car but the "T" that cost you (us) the sway bars, but that is not the point of your request. I also am looking for similar info for a 71 T Targa also less bars.

But this is what I can add
66 912 coupe (yes I know you are talking 911 but stay with this a min.)
I am running a 19 mm front bar and a 16 mm rear bar, (Car was stock with a 13 mm front and no rear bar)
Car is lowered, (see pic) running 205 55 16 on 16 x 6 rims running 16mm spacers in front only, Koni externally adjustable in F, std adjustable Koni rear.

I love the ride, a bit stiff but oh so fun and tight on the twisties around here, no auto x but lots of spirited drives :-)

Wheels listed, 205 60 15 on a 7" rim?? I had (still have) that tire on a set of 15 x 6 rims with above bars, sounds like a lot of rim for that tire??
I think stock thru the body bars were 16 mm not 15, also feel you need more bar front than rear (not 16 & 16) will help induce tail wagging, Others hopefully will chime in.

My added question, 71 911T, what are your thoughts on running the above as on the 912 with the added rear weight as well as the change from SWB to LWB including additional weight of car, 71 has Bilstine HD's and will be running same tire 205 55 16 until I figure out if a stock 71 can fit 225 50 16 on rear.

input anyone.

Regards

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1239149638.jpg

Data point for you.

I ran 22mm front and rear with 5 hole adjustable arms front 2 hole rear and adjustable links front & rear on my 72T. I ran the front one hole from full soft and the rear on the hardest of two settings. The car was neutral both on the track tires, Hoosier 225/50-15F 245/50(or45)-15R and very slight over steer on street tires 195/65-15F 215/60-15R. I used 3/4 to 1 degree negative front and 1.5neg rear. I also had a triangulated camber truss front.

I do not think you will be able to fit 225 on the rear unless you raise it back to stock height and run closr to 2 deg neg camber rear, or get a set of the 7R wheels $$$$$$ deeper offset.

FPB, thanks for the info, also for ref. the 19mm bar on the 66 pictured is using the stock non adjustable arms & link's, I do have the camber strut.

The car I want to try the 225 50 16, is not the car pictured, it is a 71 911 Targa, I have a set of 205 55 16, on 16 x 6 SC rims for it and have a spare pair of 16 x 7 SC rims IF it looks like it will fit. I have done size calculations comparing different wheels & tire size, easy thing is to put the 205's on it and measure it, but car is up on stands doing final assy post paint. Hope to have the Wevo trans beam back and motor mounts this week and have the car off the stands in a couple weeks to see.
Oh the 71 Targa is yet to be lowered. Wes not sure if I confused you with the pic.

Thanks for the numbers from your 72.

Regards

The thread on the rates for Bilstein HD / Sport has some very good information,
here is a link from Steve's site, looks like a great baseline to look at

Regards

http://www.rennsportsystems.com/1-e.html

My '70 T has factory front and rear bars. Drove it for a long time with the rear bar disconnected (bushings MIA) and even autocrossed it that way. lots of lean but still very fun and controllable. by the time i got the rear bar hooked up (those ball mount bushings are a *****!) i was ready to tear the whole thing apart for new bushings so i don't really have good experience on that.

My general understanding is this;
-it is not uncommon at all to run a 911 w/ no rear bar.
-the car will tend to be more difficult to rotate w/ no bar.
-for ax you want MORE rear bar to rotate quickly
-for track/street you want LESS rear bar for more stick

My '70T is also sans bars and I also plan to go the same 15x7 route as the OP; whether on 205/60-15 or something else remains to be seen. For the time being I think I'll drive it without them and on the skinny 165R15s.

Sounds crazy, I know, but there is some method to my madness. There are a couple of projects (seat belts, H4s) I want to complete before I take on a sway bar install and, unfortunately, the time I have to devote to them is limited. Speaking of limited: I have very limited seat time in 911s. I think it might be wise for me to master driving the car in its skinny-tired, swayless state before I tinker with suspension settings (something I like to do with my daily drivers as well as my hobby cars).

Ed

Ed are you doing any ax's?

If not you need to get signed up and try it out. will greatly speed up the learning process.

a lifetime of street driving won't add up to 5 60 second runs in a big parking lot.

Thanks for all the info. I have also heard that running no rear bar for street use is very common. I do track a different car and understand that stiffer rear will help turn and point. What I don't know is setting up a rear wheel, rear weight bias car. I think the best thing to do is establish a baseline, ie add the stock front and stock rear and drive it then make upgrades, changes as needed.

EA 911. I'd just put a stock 15mm bar in the front, probably cost you $20 here plus bushings, and try it. You'll have giant understeer. If you like the feel, stay with it. If you don't, add a 15mm rear bar, which gets you to what the factory did in the mid 70's. If what you really want to deal with is lean, go right now to 18 or 20mm in the front and 18mm in the back. The car will be stiffer, feel more taut, lean a lot less in corners. I see no point at all in adjustable bars for someone who has no intention of putting the car on the track. Whole project should be doable of under $200 if you do it yourself.

what about rear mount points? my '70 trailing arms have ball mounts. did all early 911's have these regardless of equipment?

Both my 73 and my 74 have the ball mount, I'm assuming (but don't know) that they were the same in earlier years. Look at the early mounts and bushings on Pelican, should give you all you need to know about what you need.

Go to the archived threads where they discuss sway bars as just one element in upgrading the suspension. Otherwise, at a minimum, use the bar sizes as equipped from the factory.

Sherwood

I hadn't planned on it, but I suppose I eventually will. I AXed both of my Subaru Foresters...








...okay, you can stop laughing now...and I'd like to do either an AX, DE or TSD with the car eventually. Really what I'd like to do someday is something like the New England Mille or Carolina Trophy but that's highly unlikely.

Ed

^ haha. Ok I'm laughing but it's all good considering your forester is a nice handling car. To tell you honestly I don't know if the rear trailing arm has a ball mount but I'm thinking no.