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The pace of technology is amazing. The super car of yesterday is out performed by a car on the average showroom floor today.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by barney911rs View Post
The pace of technology is amazing. The super car of yesterday is out performed by a car on the average showroom floor today.
I understand what you mean, but I would hardly call the 997 Turbo or the GT2 and "average showroom floor car". The 959 can still beat 99.% of just about everything sold new today...

-Wayne
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:35 PM
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Cars are not average. Just meant just about any Porsche dealer would have a 997 Turbo in the showroom. The 959 still has way more WOW factor.
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:49 PM
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Wayne - from a technological perspective (and by that I guess I am also thinking of maintenance/keeping it going), in your opinion does the superior performance (over something like a 993 TT) make up for the complexity/longevity issues?

BTW - just to be clear, I love hearing about this car, and have subscribed to all of the 959 threads I've come across. But if you're not a Porsche parts supplier or Mr. Canepa, can you drive a 959?
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:59 PM
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But if you're not a Porsche parts supplier or Mr. Canepa, can you drive a 959?
No, of course not. Even they will have to pay one day for engine internals that hardly exist any longer. This might be the hardest car on earth to maintain. Older cars with more rare parts are typically more basic, this car was on the verge of technology but now much of it is going to be hard to replicate or locate. Its a nice car but only a few people can keep them for long.
Old 04-11-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts View Post
I understand what you mean, but I would hardly call the 997 Turbo or the GT2 and "average showroom floor car". The 959 can still beat 99.% of just about everything sold new today...

-Wayne
Not to mention that the 959 is probably the only car that can look at home and hold up to the staggaring reputations in the below photo...the 959 is and always will be a masterpiece of motorsport just like its brothers.

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Old 04-11-2009, 09:58 PM
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Wow - that is a stunning grouping!

Who's garage?
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:54 AM
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very cool photos Wayne!!! i always enjoy seeing old Porsche factory photos....
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DAEpperson View Post
Wayne - from a technological perspective (and by that I guess I am also thinking of maintenance/keeping it going), in your opinion does the superior performance (over something like a 993 TT) make up for the complexity/longevity issues?

BTW - just to be clear, I love hearing about this car, and have subscribed to all of the 959 threads I've come across. But if you're not a Porsche parts supplier or Mr. Canepa, can you drive a 959?
I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand the question. You don't own a 959 these days for it's driving performance, you own it for it's heritage (and the bonus of excellent performance). That said, the price of a 993 Turbo is higher than that of a 996 Turbo which is a better performing car than the 993.

-Wayne
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:51 PM
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I guess for what are completely arbitrary reasons, I drew the line a the last air/oil cooled Porsches.

But come to think of it, I guess the 959 was somewhat water-cooled wasn't it.

I do think it's an awesome car. I wasn't so much thinking of it from an ownership perspective today, but more from the standpoint of why'd they build it? Did it make sense for Porsche, or would they have been better off not going down that road.

Then again, would there have been a 993TT without a 959???
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DAEpperson View Post
I wasn't so much thinking of it from an ownership perspective today, but more from the standpoint of why'd they build it? Did it make sense for Porsche, or would they have been better off not going down that road
It was a technology exercise and a lot of the technology that was used on the 959 was incorporated into later cars. Even more importantly, perhaps, was the fact that on the 959, some of the technology was too complicated and they *did not* incorporate it into the later cars. The one example that comes to mind is the 4WD system, which is unique to the 959. The system was so complicated that Porsche decided not to use it on any production cars, and instead opt for simpler systems. I think they found that the performance benefit did not warrant the vastly complicated system.

More on this system when I go to fix mine later on this year.

-Wayne
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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
Coming in 2014:
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:56 PM
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I often wonder what other people are doing to upkeep these cars who don't have a mechanic who can handle it much less source parts. I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't tolerate an ear piercing oil sender alarm like Wayne had to deal with. Do they ship it to Germany? Never drive it? Throw money at it?
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:16 PM
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I often wonder what other people are doing to upkeep these cars who don't have a mechanic who can handle it much less source parts. I'm sure Bill Gates doesn't tolerate an ear piercing oil sender alarm like Wayne had to deal with. Do they ship it to Germany? Never drive it? Throw money at it?
The people who worked on this car before I had it only had a factory manual, and didn't even have a code reader tool to read out the codes. So, unless you really know what you're talking about and doing on these cars (like the folks at Callas Rennsport do), then yes, you're kindof destined to continue to hear the alarms on them. I've talked to the folks at Quail when there was a big 959 gathering last year, and it's par for the course. I'm quite confident that Bill Gates has heard that big loud alarm in his car before. It's the Porsche equivalent of the blue screen of death!

-Wayne
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101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 • How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines • 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman • 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:01 AM
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Anyone know the total production numbers? How many are still being driven?

I did see an HD show where one owner allowed the host to drive his in the rain. I think it was the guy with the Taj Garage(sp.?). The sound of it running was glorious!
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:47 AM
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If it's the Tag Garage guy, then that would be John Dixon (real nice guy). That car, unfortunately, met with an unfortunate accident last year. John's okay, but the car is not.

Total production numbers for all the cars were somewhat sketchy. According to an article Ian Kuah, when asked by the factory, they gave these numbers:

- 16 prototype cars (1985)
- 21 "Vorseries" or pre-production cars (1985)
- 106 Comfort models and 7 ROW sport models (1987)
- 149 Comfort models and one ROW sport model (1988)
- 29 Sport models for USA market (1988)

For a total of 329 built from 1985-88. BUT, this article fails to mention the ones built in 1992 or so from leftover parts. I believe there were 3 or so of these built for special requests.

-Wayne
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Coming in 2014:
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:19 AM
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Eight more cars built in 1992. One went to Willi Weber, Michael Schumacher's manager. The 1992 cars were updated in various ways and some were a cross between sport and komfort.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts View Post
I understand what you mean, but I would hardly call the 997 Turbo or the GT2 and "average showroom floor car". The 959 can still beat 99.% of just about everything sold new today...

-Wayne
And in this case "yesterday" was over 20 years ago!

Group B rallying must have been an incredible spectacle for the short time it lasted.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:55 PM
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When it's all said and done this is one of the most "special"cars ever built.
I would prefer it to the Bugatti Vernon or a McLaren F1.

My ultimate garage would be >>>

1. A silver 959... (Not impossible)
2. The original RUF CTR Yellow bird prototype... (Keep dreaming)
3. A red Ferrari F40.... (Just put may flame proof suit on... More possible)
4. My Furn Green 1978 911 SC
5. My daily.. Indian Red 1994 VW Golf MK3 VR6

Notice they're all "old school"...

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Old 04-14-2009, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts View Post
The people who worked on this car before I had it only had a factory manual, and didn't even have a code reader tool to read out the codes. So, unless you really know what you're talking about and doing on these cars (like the folks at Callas Rennsport do), then yes, you're kindof destined to continue to hear the alarms on them. I've talked to the folks at Quail when there was a big 959 gathering last year, and it's par for the course. I'm quite confident that Bill Gates has heard that big loud alarm in his car before. It's the Porsche equivalent of the blue screen of death!

-Wayne
Wayne, does the ECU(s) in the 959 communicate with "The Hammer"?? if not, what reader are you using/need.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:12 AM
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Wayne,

I love the fact that you have a 959. You deserve it for the amount of happiness and fellowship this forum has given us over the years. Your kind of success is admirable. You created something of value with a lot of work over many years. We are all better off because of your generous spirit and leadership as a chief enthusiast and entrepreneur.

My Porsche ownership experience has been a joy. I bought a car that was pretty, but neglected mechanically. Because I learned the value of a Pre-Purchase inspection from you and the Pelican members, I was able to buy my car for a fair price and repair the items that were identified as problems. Because of this site and the members, I saved at least $5,000.00. I spent blood and treasure to get my car the way it is now. But I would have felt cheated and robbed if I found out AFTER buying it that it needed all the repairs it did and what they cost.

Out of gratitude and appreciation for all that you have done to make the hobby fun for us all, I thank you! I wish you the very best and hope that you enjoy driving your very cool car.
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Old 04-14-2009, 08:12 PM
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