Oil line fittings and speedo attachment

[cds72911]

Hi all,

The weekend is over so it's time for my next round of questions. I successfully used Roland's directions to remove the wiring from the front of the car and moved on to the engine drop.

I used Pelican/Wayne's tech article, the Haynes Manual and the directions from the Porsche 911 Purchase and Restoration guide as references.

Most everything went well - removing the acceleratior linkage was a bit fiddly and I did break one seized bolt on the right sway bar mount - but the real challenge was the oil lines.

I have not been able to remove the threaded oil lines from the oil tank, filler or engine. If I could remove the two fittings from the back of the oil filter mount I'd be in the clear - I could remove the one on the oil tank on the work bench.

Here's the story - I can't get to the fitting on the left hand side of the engine at all - it is obscured by the heat exchanger. I dropped the oil tank (my car is a '72 so it has the oil tank in front of the rear wheel) and I can't budge the one threaded fitting on it. I can also reach the two fittings on the filler from the wheel well, but again, I can't get them to budge.

A part of the problem is the wrong tool - I do not have a proper wrench in 36mm (as best I can tell - I measured the fitting with a digital micrometer), so I was trying using an adjustable wrench. I was hesitant to apply too much force because the fit was not positive and I didn't want to damage the outside of the fitting. I also applied liberal amounts of penetrating fluid and that didn't seem to help.

This morning I did an archive search, and there was a suggestion of using heat. I may try that, but flame + penetrating fluid seems like a bad combo.

Are there any other tricks to getting these fittings off? I saw in Automotion that there is a special too- a 12 point 36mm wrench made for removing oil lines. Anyone have one of these they'd loan out or rent me?

Oh yes, I still haven't removed the reverse light connections or the speedo cable so we'll see how that goes - there's not a lot of space to work in there...

Once I get this stuff figured out the engine drop itself should be a snap.

Thanks,
Charlie
'72 911T

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Looks like you like to work the hard way ?

Normaly you drop the engine and trany before you start fiddeling out the other parts.

The reverslight cables belong to the enginecable wireloom and stay on the engine. Speedocable is 22 or 24 mm and normaly you can loose it by hand.

( Just the big and heavy things first )

Your Oilline problem is very simple:

Just unbolt the complete system in one piece from front to rear.
On the oiltank you have the two thick vent tubes in the way. Cut them you renew them anyhow but avoid to fill the tank with dirt.

Now if the fitting will not come lose open the spanband for the tank. Normally the screw is rustet so use a old screwdriver and prey the clamp up so the bases will jump out.

The tank will then come down several centimeter. If you have removed the long lines to the oilcooler you can swing it down and open it with using some hammering and heat.

The frontcooler and the other lines are lossend and then you remove the complete oilsystem from the car. Turn it around and lift the cooler end to a hook on the ceiling or on a crane and bleed the system.

Then use some plastickfoil around the ends to keep dirt out and restoil in.

The Oilfilterhousing can be unscrewd by loosing the 3 bolts and removed complete with the oillines.

The best tool to remove the oillines is buying a standard 15° angled boxed end wrench and slice out the opening for the pipes. ( Grinder )

Grüsse

[cds72911]

Roland,

Yes, I guess this is the hard way, but I do not know any better. This is my first 911 and I am learning as I go.

I have read everything I can get my hands on and am trying to make the best of the situation. I do not have many friends or colleagues that work on Porsches. Most of my friends work on water coolerd Volkswagens and they're not much help for these Porsche specific things.

Fortuantely my oil tank came loose easily (the allen head bolt came out fine with some penetrating oil) and is all ready to come out if I could remove the line from the oil filter housing to the tank. Both ends are threaded. If I could just remove the oil filter housing end, I could take this one off on the bench.

So, you're saying I can just make my own "special tool" by getting a normal 36mm box end wrench and using a grinder to cut out an opening to slip over the hose. That is a great idea and I will try it tonight (if my local tool stores have a 36mm box end wrench in stock).

I have to admit I considered that for a short while and then ruled it out, thinking that I would weaken the wrench too much and it would break. But, if you've done it then I have renewed confidence that this will work.

Thanks again Roland.

Charlie

PS. Wayne, if you're out there monitoring this thread, you might condsider adding these tips of Roland's to your engine drop tech tip. I do not have an adjustable spanner that went wide enough for this job like you did...

[Rot 911]

Charlie, reading your posting has has me a bit confused. You say you are trying to remove the oil line on the left side of the engine. If you are talking about the driver's side, why are you removing the line? I dropped my 72 911E engine this winter and I just disconnected the lines on the oil tank using a really big crescent wrench. As for the reverse light the wires just unplug from the transmission and the speedo knurled nut should unscrew easily.

Kurt V
72 911E

[cds72911]

Kurt,

Sorry I do not mean to be confusing. I'll try to explain better. I may not be explaining it correctly as I am doing this from memory (I'm not near the car right now).

The pelican tech article says:
"Start by disconnecting the hard metal oil line on the passenger side of the car. There should be a junction towards the right rear of the car, as shown in Figure 11. The other line connected to this junction is connected to the bottom of the oil tank. Use two adjustable crescent wrenches to loosen this nut up. On my relatively rust-free 1982 911SC, this took a tremendous amount of force to remove, so be prepared. You may need any extra long wrench and/or breaker bar. Be careful not to bend or damage the hard line that runs underneath the engine."


The oil line from my engine runs from the drivers' side through a metal pipe across to the passenger side and into a rubber line that has a screw fitting on the oil filter housing. I wasn't able to budge the fitting on the metal line that runs under the engine and connects to the rubber line, and I didn't want to damage it (looks expensive).

The line out of the oil filter housing goes to the oil tank in front of the wheel well with another threaded fitting.

I am stripping the car so I want to remove the engine, oil filter housing and oil tank with all hoses. To do this I must at a minimum remove the two threaded fittings on the oil filter housing. If I can do that I can get everything off the car and disassemble the rest from there.

I do not own an appropriately sized crescent wrench and was looking for tips before I buy one (they're expensive in that large a size). I found one locally and am going over at lunch time to purchase it. Perhaps it will be quite easy with the correct tool. I am optimistic...

Thanks for the tips on the reverse lights and speedo fitting. I will see if I can get to them before dripping the transaxle, if not I may have to do it afterwards.

Thanks,
Charlie

[cds72911]

Ouch, only local source for a 36mm wrench - $68.88 and it is about as long as my arm. I think I might order the special tool rather than buy a $70 wrench and then grind it down. Have to see if Wayne offers it...

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Sorry my mistake everyone has to make a start and removing the wireloom with the engine in is also possible.

But not usual if you start a restoration.

As you have much time you have not the pressure.

Normaly I strip a old 911 in 8-12 hours to bare bone chassis. If some bolts are rustet und you have some typical hurdles you need much more time. Also some rare things do need much more attention ( i.E rubber parts or interiour stuff ) and after that you need some time to pack an conservate the goodies or rebuild those parts.

Also to clear up a mistake do you have the flap ? MY 72 or MY 73 ?

The best way for good tools is to sneak around at farmer shops or industrial places.

Such big tools get used up after some time and mostly the problem is the open end worn out. This is mostly used on pipelines or hidden bolts.

well cuting out a 30° segement do hurt the tools rigidty but they will still be tuff enough to brake lose the oilline nuts.

The best thing is you have 4 corners from the nut on the tool instead from 2 with a normal spanner. So risk to round off is much lower or you can try it with the double tourqe.

Now I made this tool some 10 years ago using an very aged ( maybe prewar ? ) VBW spanner.

OK that thing is forged and not drop & forget.

Well Boys; tool time !!!

The right tools are half the job and sometimes it is impossible ( OK if I get Hunted ) without tools. If you don´t have it then try to find someone who has it and try to change "interressts" or favours.

Also some tool distributors like the Snap On guys do normaly help. They know who has what and they also get tools back( Waranty ) or know used or unused tools. And they know you will came back if your Sears tool will brake in pieces and you need something for real work.

Basically you need the two Vice Grip pliers and some other Snap On goodies sooner or later time to get a cataloge and some test tools............

Well it is now time for you to visit all those little companys and shops in your area.
You need those people for many resons.
Maybe just for an other opinion or just as they have the right tools.
Most of them are friendly have knowledge and will support such projects if you don´t steal to much time.

To open the Oillines just visit sume plumers.
They have the tools.

If you have them on the floor then take two middle big hammers and place them on the nut flange each oppesite the other. then use one hammer to knock on the fitting ( Not to hard not to soft ). Do this to all 6 flanges put same WD 40 on it and try to open the nut. Counter the other end with a other spanner ( 30 or 32 ). If not you can twist the line like a corkscrew.

If it will not come off then use some heat.

Right now theeasiest way is to open the lines on the filterhousing as long it is boltet to the car.

Removing the pressure feed line from the engine is risky. First remove the heat exchanger. Then you neeed a 30 mm open spanner with slightly grinded away outer edges so it will fit in the close space and then a 36 mm Spanner. You also can lose the nut and if the fitting comes complete from the block it is easy to lose that part later and rescrew it to the engine. But sometimes the threads get striped and you need a very interessting heli coil size.

And if everything brakes use a good knife or a metall saw and cut trough the rubber.

Your local hydraulic shop can renew the lines but they will not find the tubes or fittings.

If you go to new lines then use the heat resistant rubberhoses. Some use barrier hose but they are to hard to bend and only usefull for raceing. Just avoid to get high prssure rubberhose that will go in flakes if you hit over 100°C oil temperatures.

Grüsse

[cds72911]

Thanks again Roland,

I wish I was a pro at this, but I am still learning. Maybe by the time I get to 911 restoration #2 or #3 or so will be much easier. I can only imagine stripping to the chassis in 8-12 hours.

I am going slowly on purpose to avoid breakage. It will probably take me a total of 30 hours to strip it down once all is said and done. Not good for a shop, since you need to make money, but okay for a personal project since my own labor rate is $0 per hour.

I have a MY72 with the external oil filler flap behind the right hand door.

I may have caused some confusion since I asked several questions about the correct mirrors, etc. for a '73 RS. I am doing a 73 RS look body conversion, and since you mentioned that the first 8 '73 Carrera RSs did have the external filler flap like the '72 I though it would not be too much of a "historical violation". I have rear 9' flared quarters (SC not RS) on the way, I already have a ducktail and RS front spoiler with removable cooler opening and I am going to order a rear fiberglass bumper soon.

The oil lines are removed. Last night I stopped by my friends shop and borrowed a larger adjustable spanner. He works on Volkswagens/Audis and old British cars, but an adjustable wrench is pretty universal. This one was 15 inches in length and was large enough to get around the 36mm fitting. Lots more leverage and torque! I went to my garage and had all of the fittings off in 10 minutes. I had to use some gentle persuasion with a rubber mallet, but once the fittings "broke loose" they came off easily. I took the oil tank out and removed the last fitting with the tank on the floor (better leverage).

I have a pretty good collection of tools (for a hobbyist) but most are lower quality Craftsman, rather than Snap-On, Mac, Blue Point or the like. All of my specialty tools are for VWs since I used to race them and do all my own work. I am only slowly collecting the right "special tools" for working on Porsches.

With regard to the wire loom, I only removed the wires from the front of the car. I have the rear harness still in the car with everything detached, ready to pull through from the back. The wire is still in the tunnel, since I figured it would be easier to extract it once I removed the engine and transmission.

I will keep an eye out for an 36mm wrench. The biggest problem is tha most farmers and plumbers around here (Vermont, USA) use Standard measurement tools rather than Metric measurement. It am guessing that is not so easy to find an old 36mm wrench as it might be in Europe. I'll keep looking though.

Thanks so much for the information. Another problem solved.

Now for the engine drop tonight after work. Remove four bolts, the reverse light wires and the speedo and it is ready to drop!

Thanks,
Charlie

[Roland Kunz]

Hello


Well since 1968 the reverse light cable belongs not to the body wireloom. It goes up to the starter and from there into the engine wireloom.

4 bolts + 8 or 12 in the CV´s the mass wire, remove the sway bar or hang it down, remove coupler ( allenhead 4mm ) for the shifter and engage a odd gear before.

remove the oilines, unbolt the fat startercable clip out the throttle puller from the middletunel amd also remove the puller going abouve the cv, unscrew the speedo cable, hang out clutch cable.

ready with the underside. Then down and remove the fuellines ( MFI coldstart too ), breather line, and the two wiresets.

Place shop lifter under the middle from the unit witch is beetween the last cylinders more forward to the trany or partially under the trany. lift the unit a bit on and loose the two front bolts also the two rearbolts.

Then let the unit come down and tilt it slight backward ( 10 - 20° angle ).
Then roll back the complete unit so the alternator will stand close to the rear (1-2"air ) check if the trany shifter is complet out from the hole and drop the unit untill the CV where hanging on the trany/starter, swep them aroud and and look if everything is free.
then down and if you removed the rear valance you can roll it out backwards.


36 mm equals 1,4" or 1 2/5, not a standard UNF size but 1 ⅜ is 35,4 mm and can fit.

Grüsse

[cds72911]

Thanks!

I got the engine and transmission out of the car last night. What a relief.

Only problem now is I need a larger garage. That engine and transmission assembly is huge. Between the 911 engine, a 912 engine, a volkswagen 2.0 crossflow engine, hydraulic jacks, engine lift, mig welder, oxy-acet tanks, air compressor, fenders, hood, etc. my garage is getting quite full. I think it is time for a bigger garage (or fewer parts).

Thanks!
Charlie