Pros and cons of 993 HEs on a 3.2

[Maxhouse97]

All this talk of 993 HEs had me thinking - and my wallet is still recovering from my last mod...

I currently have a stock US 3.2 with Webcam 20/21s, Fabspeed pre-muffler, extra outlet added to my stock muffler, and SW chip (unfortunately with a standard sport muffler program).

My engine feels great and definitely has power on the top end. In fact, I go back and forth on whether I would like more mid-range torque or whether it is more fun to have to wind out the motor to get the power. Sure is great on the track. I think the cams have the most to do with that and I am certainly not getting rid of those.

My initial thought about my next mod was getting rid of weight in the back end. I am sure I could save 10-15 pounds on a MK exhaust alone. Thats when all of the 993 posts popped up.

So here are some pros and cons as I can see them relating to me - and my slightly moded 3.2:

Pros: Larger primaries for more flow (especially with my cams), relatively cheap (when compared to BB, GHL), WEIGHT LOSS! (my question from Ben's thread - its gotta be significant - anyone know/want to estimate?).

Cons: Have to do the oil line backdate (don't know how hard that is), heat issues (which should be solved by Ben's new system), possible loss of mid-range torque due to larger primaries, emissions (not a problem for me right now), not stock (will keep the parts but way past that right now).


So as I see it this is a slam dunk for me.

- Spend $4-600 for the HEs, and another $3-400 for the oil lines, remap, and other incidentals. Could sell my Fabspeed and modded muffler (maybe?) and recoup $2-300.
- Gain 9hp with the HEs alone (from Steve Ws chart posted here: Best exhaust with heat for a 3.2?) and more if I have him remap for my cams and HEs
- Loose 15-20 lbs (??) in the back where it really helps (I wouldn't need all of that cross-over tubing)
- Set myself up for further mods down the road (I think the 993 HEs will support further hp if/when I rebuild).


Any thoughts? What am I missing? I think I would almost do this for the weight loss alone. $6-900 for 10-15 hp (with remap) - in Porsche $/hp ratio I think that is pretty good.

[JeremyD]

Cons are connecting the side where the flanges are connected - I used a box wrench but it was tight.

Oil line replacement - You'll do it if you go SSI's or whatever - but don't discount the oil line to thermostat connection. It has tripped up more than a few die hard pelicanites.

Pros - for the money - I think this is one of the best exhaust mods there is for a 3.2/3.4

[Maxhouse97]

OK - but there are tools to help with that

I have a leak in one of my oil lines anyways - another reason for my to justify it to myself (why do I always seem like I am justifying spending more money on my car )

Jeremy any idea how much weight you saved over the stock system?

[Maxhouse97]

Just thought of another potential con - loud exhaust. I don't want to go too much louder than what I currently have. Maybe one of Ben's Gen 5 mufflers (2 in 2 out) will be able to help out. Won't have the premuffler to quiet things down though. Hmmm...

[JeremyD]

I think the sounds is pretty awesome - It's a little loud - but I have one of the first generation of the 993 mufflers - and it's pretty "robust"

[Dixie]

I heard 993 HEs must be removed in order to remove the lower valve covers. True, or not true?

[JeremyD]

I have heard that too - but I haven't had to do one yet - but It sure looks like I have room on my car

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

I heard 993 HEs must be removed in order to remove the lower valve covers. True, or not true?

yeah true but not that big of a deal really.

if anyone needs a set I have 1 extra set left and now can provide a heat setup along with a muffler of your choosing

[Maxhouse97]

BTW where does the O2 sensor go in the 993 HE setup (didn't see it in Jeremy's pics).

[JeremyD]

I don't have one - it saves me almost a lb.

[JP911]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

I heard 993 HEs must be removed in order to remove the lower valve covers. True, or not true?

If you grind away part of the heater inlet (leave just enough to hold a hose clamp) you will NOT have to remove the HEs to remove the lower valve covers. I speak from experience.

[Maxhouse97]

No O2 sensor? So there is no feedback loop for the DME? What are the drawbacks to that? I know at WOT the sensor is usually taken out of the equation, but at part throttle doesn't it contribute to smooth running/mpg?

Interesting...

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

No O2 sensor? So there is no feedback loop for the DME? What are the drawbacks to that? I know at WOT the sensor is usually taken out of the equation, but at part throttle doesn't it contribute to smooth running/mpg?

Interesting...

just drop a bung in the muffler. I weld them on the inlets or the body for folks

[Maxhouse97]

OK yeah that is what I was thinking - sweet.

Had a pair of 993 heat exchangers and was planning on putting them in but didn't want to deal with all the details of making them fit. I like to drive my car then work on it. Bought a set of used B&B and have to say that I am very happy with the setup. Car breaths right and hauls a$$.
I don't mind spending money on others peoples R&D on something that works and makes my life easier.
Although that is different for others that enjoy that kind of work.

[JeremyD]

Steve programmed me a chip to work without the o2 sensor - she runs pretty well.

As far as B & B - I have gone down that route (B & B Headers) - three or four mufflers later - No thanks.

[QUOTEAs far as B & B - I have gone down that route (B & B Headers) - three or four mufflers later - No thanks.[/QUOTE]


Thats what I hear. I have been lucky so far. I have a current version of the system. So far so good for me.

[Maxhouse97]

Funny now there are three 993 HE/Header mod posts going on right now... I guess another con is a lack of a documented significant increase of power with the 993 HEs (Steve W's numbers weren't 993 specific). Most appear to think without a "breathed on" motor that these will not be worth the effort. Not sure my cams alone qualify for that category...

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

Funny now there are three 993 HE/Header mod posts going on right now... I guess another con is a lack of a documented significant increase of power with the 993 HEs (Steve W's numbers weren't 993 specific). Most appear to think without a "breathed on" motor that these will not be worth the effort. Not sure my cams alone qualify for that category...

I just don't see what "all the effort" is . they took me and my 4 year old about 40 minutes to put on with me having his wrench in the way the hole time. The major issue is muffler selection but then again I don't have that issue but you are more limited. steve weiner and I spoke the other day about making conversion pipes to fit a standard muffler and that may a solution but it would probably be a convulted mess of piping but at least give more options?

[Steve W]

If you need heat, the 993HEs are a good way to go. If you don't, you've got lots of header options. On Tyson's tired 3.2, with the stock heat exchangers and muffler, and a cat bypass, the car didn't feel like anything particularly special, maybe just a bit slower than normal. With the 993HEs installed and mated to a modified SC muffler with a second outlet on the right and the car was night and day. It was like a big cork was pulled out of the exhaust and it felt like the car gained 20 hp. Feels a lot like Patrick Brass' 3.2 with 1.7" OBX headers and a Magnaflow muffler. For the Toyo Cup spec series, Tyson had to downsize to max 1.5" headers (backdated heat exchangers) - he said it felt like the car lost 10 hp at the top end. We didn't dyno any of this because that costs time and money and we weren't doing any of this for anyone else's info. But you all are welcome to do so and share the info!