SSI's on 3.2 Carrera?
 

Need some help on choosing an exhaust for my 88 3.2 Carrera.

Requirements are:

Stainless - I don't want to do this again!

Heat - I live in the UK and need heat and defrost facilities for year round use

Sound - quite like the original sound and would like to increase 'burble' rather than level (if that makes any sense)

Cost - I ain't no millionaire! - seriously cost is important but not the final arbiter although gradual replacement is possible (I'll need a back box soon)

I know this is a minefield but have thought of SSI (but are they too small?) or Dansk Heat Exchangers and a single outlet stainless steel back box (don't need a cat). Most of the SS boxes advertised in the UK (although I am happy to order from anywhere in the world) appear to be non specified makes and would like experiences of any specific makes you have used.

Many thanks

Roy M


[This message has been edited by Roy M (edited 06-06-2001).]

Roy M

I'm in a similar situation. Recently I asked the same kind of questions here about a Dansk SSI exhaust system and was told the following:

-Louder, but no resonance.
-Heat output the same or even slightly better (it's cold here in Denmark too).

About the brand I don't really know that many. But I do know that Dansk Autopart is making high quality exhausts. They supply both Porsche AG and several independant tuning/spare parts companies with their exhausts.

Sorry to keep adding to this but I am researching elsewhere.

I would like to ensure that the heating system is retained as stock as possible - I note that the SSI's need changes made and that the system works on a different basis - i.e. a two in rather than one in system. The two in system would appear to be more efficient than the cross pipe system (just looking at it) but are we talking major problems here? (obviously SSI's mean that I would have to change the whole system at once - wouldn't they?). The Dansk's look good and I assume would need no mods to the heating (and possibly oil lines?)

I would be more than happy with any performance increase but it is not the main purpose of the conversion.

Thanks

Roy


[This message has been edited by Roy M (edited 06-06-2001).]

The ssi at 1.5"OD x 31" long on the primaries are a good choice for the 3.2. They are a tiny bit small but not enough to cause any problem(unlike with the 3.6, and even there they are good if you wish to enhance low speed torque over high speed hp). As a reference point the 84 SC/RS (though only 3 liters but allowed to rev higher) used 42mm OD(~1 58").
T he mods to the heat are minor and can be seen in this pic of ssi on a 3.6(3.2 will be similar. the ssi will require oil line backdate to 74 type system
http://www.cheaterswayside.com/uploa...I3small100.jpg
The corrogated ss pipe serves to guide the heat from the left side of a 3.2 or 3.6 where it comes through the sheetmetal, not visable on the left is a T(the left side flex duct comes out of the side of the T), the more flexible silver duct is used to make the tighter bends, the U bend on the right is the worst, use stock silicone orange gaskets to make the final connection to the ssi's.
Sound will be more correlated to the muffler used, a factory twin in/one out will sound just a little louder than what you have now(when it was new)

Bill

I just had a look at your homepage. Let me compliment you on your 911. It looks great. I'm surprised that you have 275/40x17 at the rear. Can that really be done without rubbing? Or have you done something to the fender flares?

What colour is it (yeah I know it's silver, but what kind) :P

Bill

Thanks for the info and pic. It looks like if I use SSI's I need only a pair of SSI's and a two in ? out muffler whereas with the standard I need a pair of heat exchangers, a cross over pipe, pre silencer, and a 1 in ? out muffler. If I go SSI's I also need a slight mod to the heating which appears very simple and some mods to the oil pipes. Is that it? How many pipes?

Thanks

Roy M

Hello

The only good working way is to retrofit a complete pre 75 exhaust set up.

You will need the heatexchangers the muffler the mounting hardware including two big spanners. The driver sided should have a lambda probe provision.

You can use your 3,2 Oillines but the left exchanger needs some modification (Heavy hammmering or cut and weld ). Anyhow the left exchanger also´can colide with the forward outlet into the forward engineshroud that shields the heat from the sensors.

Be prepared to have the car longer in progress or use the "hammer make fit" methode if you need the car for daily transport.

Get a SC rear shrouding and install it. Also the short sheetmetall on the passenger side for runing down the hose.

Then make a Y pipe for the blower ( raw from VW Bus or 914/4, 911 SC parts ) and run the right fresh air hose into a flat channel tube obouve the engine carrier to the right side. ( a bit like on the euro 356 C ) You can make a tube with bends and flatet section ( See your local plumer for details ) to transport the air to the other side.

You also can use the SC AC hose size reducer ( 60 mm down to 50 mm ) and run 50 mm flextube obouve the engine to the right side.
It will fit behind the AC and you have to run it around then use the small ducting piece from the early cars to go down at the hight from the chain housing.

This house is in the way at servicing then. So make it easy detachable.


I prefer original Porsche heat exchangers as they have to monting holes and fit perfect.
Dansk is OEM and so the price advantage would led to them. They also offer different tube diameters for upgraded engines even for 964 ports.

To fight noise you also have to attach the inner lashes to the engineblock. Yours is missing the studs there.

But SSI isn´t not far away and don´t cost as much. They have a nicer finish and look more polished.
Muffler is up on you. The standard one pipe is not to loud but will not generate low end vibes most people need to feel fast.

Best is maybe to visit some local Porsche events and collect sounds and look at some conversions.

The best way is to get a old used muffler ( Bit rare ) and try that for a while. It also reduces costs a bit.

Grüsse

Mikkel, The lips have been heavily massaged, the oil lines relocated, and the nuts on the trailing arm ground down, this is quite commonly done on the race cars here in New England, paint code 936.
Roy M, if you have the stock 88 exhaust and heat, and you want to have headers with heat then the ssi is the nicest setup that I have seen. Yes, you need the left and right ssi, the 74 factory oil lines, a 2 in/and 1 or 2 out(your choice for the last), and mod which consists of a T beneath the sheetmetal wher the air guide tube comes through, I did it myself(it shows) you can purchase a modified piece(looks more finished) from Mike Bavaro at Bodymotion in NJ., cost is rather high though. The 2 oil lines are 1) the scavage line from the pump under the forward part of the engine(visible behind the trans) and 2) the line from #1 to the oil tank #20 in this pic
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/911_...974-75/1-6.JPG
As Roland pointed out the 88 lines can be modified but I don't find that to be satisfactory. Good eye, cathing the missing ctr nuts, the 3.6 does not have them, worked fine as far as noise, and vibration were concerned

I just installed SSI's and a Dansk 2 in 1 out muffler on my 89 coupe about 3 weeks ago. The SSI's have undisputed quality which I didn't want to skimp on. Isn't it strange how all the companies that were pushing B&B a few years ago have suddenly switched and no longer recommend them? I wonder if the ones they recommend now will have a similar history. If I'm going to add anything to my car, I don't want inferior parts, which I am sure most of you feel that way. With the muffler, I feel the only difference is the noise produced. So far the All polished stainless Dansk has been acceptable with the noise, but I have been told that they will get louder over time with break in. It is not as loud as my former cat bypass and Borla. They have since turned a golden shade from the heat. I used a company www.bodymotion.com for the alteration of my heat exchanger blower. It lets you use both sides of the exchangers with plenty of heat. Use the leoprene? hoses, they are much easier to bend. Cost for the entire parts and labor was a little over $2000 US. Performance ?? (Are any of us really satisfied).

------------------
8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

Thanks for the input - SSI's look to be the way to go which means a one hit cost rather than gradual replacement. 89911 raises another point - is it worth going all polished stainless or should I go painted stainless? I really care what my car looks like but would a painted finish last better than the stainless which would appear to go yellow?

Roy

SSI's only come polished, the ones in the pic were heavily used, 10 yr old ones first on a tracked Carrera 3.0 then on the 3.6 in the same chassis.

Hello

@89911
Did you run in any fittment trouble with the left exchanger and did you use the lambda sond ?
Also did you adoptet to the existing oillines or used the early version ?

I made it with SSI once on a 85 and had some extra work to fit them. Later I made it with Porsche parts on a G50 car and it was nearly a bolt on exept the oiline clearance.


@Bill

Sorry my eyes are magic. I didn´t see your post when I made my answer. I load down the quests and then work offline updating and geting new input. I startet to write behind Mikkel´s first post. I also had prepared to search your post on Rennlist several weeks ago.


Also I avoid to rework oillines, to risky if the have failures. Reworking the heat shrouding will have result in lower heat delivery and noise. Much simpler then a engine failure.

Not swaping the oiline is a benefit for all those who have to retrofit the old system for emissions.

The interessting thing on using Porsche parts are the Porsche lettering and the stock look witch helps much on the police inspections :-)

Anyhow if you have an accident you get riped like a terrorist.

Grüsse

My SSIs have some miles on them and they have oxidixed a bit to a brownish/yellow

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...149&p=49379648

I haven't tried cleaning them up. Anyone know a good way to polish and restore the luster?

Also, when I installed I did not find it neccesary to replace the oil line. I used a floor jack to raise the line (bend it) ever so slightly so that it was closer to the engine, thereby giving enough clearance to get the SSI on. The bend was very slight and I am sure did not compromise the integrity of the line. No pictures of that one though. This was on the '86. No mods where made to the SSI itself.

I did have to trim some sheet metal to give clearance for the front of the SSI, no big deal.

I have been trouble free for many miles.

------------------
Chuck Moreland - '86 Cab, '77 Targa, Family Truckster

Roland, Lambda Sond, you mean the 02 sensor? It fits, you just have to pull some extra wiring through the grommet. I used 2 new oil lines based on the earlier version. Not quite sure how you can adapt the old ones. The SSI's fit fine on bost sides. The left side required some removal on heat shielding in the front of the engine to protect is from the former catylyst converter.

------------------
8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

Hello

Polishing stainless ? How glossy ? And how much hours will you spend ?

Try "Never dull". For more speed but less luster use a hard nylon brush and some "Avesto" ( Welding suppley ). Let the Avesto soak in several secound and flush/rub it down with some fine corase.
After that the parts will show very slight scratches and some colordifference. then use some 1000 - 1200 grid sandpaper and sand the things smoth.. After that get some sandpaper with linen back. and use the backing for high luster or a buffing machine.

But after several weeks usage they will look like before. Just avoid geting the parts to hot.


Lambda sond is O2 sensor. Sometimes i just translate german.

Right exchanger needs to be slight dented for the oilline, the oiline steps over it. The low is that the fitting will gross the heat duct and intake hose. I think Bills solution will work better avoiding that interference.

Left exchanger needs slight rebending from the heatshield for the sensors and the oiline colidees at the hight from the 2nd cylinder.

My advise is to get the old lines and make testfitting with yours. If you see it will be to much work or your time is limitet then use the old style set. If not return them unused.

Browse your yellow pages for welding service and check out there prices. Good TIG seams can be made unvisible or suiting to the SSI style. Don´t try to cut them just mark where you need the cutout and leave the rest to the welder.


Grüsse