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Footwell heater blowers

I have an 1986 911 with manual heating system and my footwell blowers only work on low speed. When I pull up the red levers between the seats the engine compartment blower comes on and the footwell blowers come on on low speed and when I turn the rotary knob between the red levers it seems to do nothing.

I have checked all the fuses and they are good. I check the rotary switch and it seems fine. I tested the relay in the fuse panel under the front hood and the resistor also under the front hood on the passenger side and both check out. I have 12v power at pin 30 on the front relay but do not get any power to pin 86 which I understand should be supplied from pin 4 on the engine compartment controller.

When I jump the power from pin 30 to pin 87 to simulate what would happen if power was supplied to pin 86 on the relay the footwell blower on the passenger side comes on at high speed. Still the 4 position rotary knob still does nothing.

Since the engine compartment contoller has no power at pin 4 I am thinking this may be my problem but since this part 911 618 153 00 is over $300 I want to be sure before buying it.

Am I correct or is it possible the problem could be somewhere else?


Neilo

Old 06-14-2009, 10:11 PM
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Couple of things...When you jumper the relay pin 30 to 87, both footwell blowers should be running full tilt. So you need to examine why only one spins when you do this and why they both spin at low speed?? Some time during the Carrera run Porsche wired the footwell blowers to spin at slow speed even in the off position, whenever the rear blower spins. I'm not sure how they altered the wiring to allow this but I mention it so that you are aware that 'Off' and 'position 1' will be the same. My 3 speed heat console has the large dial on the top suface that triggers 3 microswitches in the housing. I guess it might be possible that you have a bad switch or two but I'm also thinking that it very well could be the controller itself. Fuse 1 and 2 in the engine compartment fuse panel feed the controller as does fuse 8 from the front fuse panel.
You are correct there should be 12 volts from pin 4 on the controller. If you can pull the controller and send 12 volts thru pin 4 on the connector you will be able to test the wiring from the engine compartment to the heat console between the seats and you should be able to test the switch positions.
Help! Does anyone understand the footwell blower circuit?
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:54 AM
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Ron,
Thanks for help!

Yes in my car the 0 and 1 position are the same and the footwell blowers running at low speed in either position. I too thought it strange that only the passenger side blower runs at high speed when I jump pin 30 to 87. At this point I am unclear on what the controller actually does and where each of the 12 wires connected to it go. Looking at the wires it appears there are pairs of the same colored wires which leads me to think one may be for each blower? If I had a wiring diagram of where the 12 wires to the controller go it would help me determine if having only one blower at high speed may also be a sign of a failed controller? Do you know where I can find a wiring diagram of the wires going to the controller?


Neilo
Old 06-16-2009, 10:34 PM
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I'm at a loss as to why both blowers work in position 1 and only one spins at position 3?? I am attaching a schematic that I doctored. I removed the fresh air blower system to make things easier to trace and so it would fit on one page. What jumps out to me is the three white/green wires at the 'additional fan relay' [upper right] pin 87. There is also a white/green wire on pin 85. I'm not sure if they are individual spade connectors and can be easily mixed up. You might want to have a look.
The way I read the schematic is that power is sent to the 'additional fan relay' via the black wire that comes from the heater control unit [console between the seats] Pin 3..that wire also feeds pin 1 on the resistor pack white wire with a diode inline. My guess is the black wire is always 12 volts when the car is in the run position and the rear blower is running. The current travels thru both of the resistors and exits on pin 2 [white /green wire]. One would assume the resistor pack is good as is the white/green wire that travels up to the 'additional fan relay'.
Selecting position 2 on the heater console routes power thru the white/black wire pin 3 on the resistor pack and thru the single resistor and exits again on pin 2. So that is another problem area to ck out.
Lastly is the white/green wire, pin 6 on the heater control unit. I had assumed that this is a switched ground but don't have a clue as to why its color isn't brown with a stripe of some other color to alert us that it is a switched ground. This makes me wonder if there might be 12 volts sitting there until you move to position 3? Anyway, the schematic is for autoheat, so there might be some differences between to two systems. Here is the schematic:



I forgot to add this Link:
Carrera - Removing Engine Compartment Heater Blower

Sal, came up with a simple solution for replacing the the engine compartment controller with a pair of relays. He is also a great source for information regarding the carrera's electrical quirks..'cause he has one.
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Last edited by Mysterytrain; 11-19-2009 at 07:28 AM..
Old 06-17-2009, 10:51 AM
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I'm pulling my hair out here. My car is an 88 Carrera without autoheat. After several hours I have the fan on the engine working, but can't get the footwell blowers to work. As suggested in this and other threads, I've jumpered pin 30 to 87 on the relay under the hood and both footwell blowers come on. I have 12 volts at pin 4 on the fan controller in the engine compartment when then engine fan is running. But there is nothing at pin 86 on the blower relay and nothing at either of the switches between the seats. Is anyone aware of a switch, connector, or component between pin 4 on the controller and the rest of the system that could be causing an open circuit? Also, my system appears to be one where the footwell blowers come on low as soon as the engine blower comes on. Does anyone have a schematic for that system?
Bentley only has schematics for the autoheat system. Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
I'm pulling my hair out here. My car is an 88 Carrera without autoheat. After several hours I have the fan on the engine working, but can't get the footwell blowers to work. As suggested in this and other threads, I've jumpered pin 30 to 87 on the relay under the hood and both footwell blowers come on. I have 12 volts at pin 4 on the fan controller in the engine compartment when then engine fan is running. But there is nothing at pin 86 on the blower relay and nothing at either of the switches between the seats. Is anyone aware of a switch, connector, or component between pin 4 on the controller and the rest of the system that could be causing an open circuit? Also, my system appears to be one where the footwell blowers come on low as soon as the engine blower comes on. Does anyone have a schematic for that system?
Bentley only has schematics for the autoheat system. Thanks.
Anyone?? Any help?
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:56 AM
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Patrick

I don't believe I have seen an actual complete diagram w/o the autoheat. But you have all the info you need in this thread and your Bentley manual. Referring to the Bentley diagram, for a manual system, just ignor the Heater Control Unit, Temperature Sensor, and Inside Temperature Sensor Blower. Now combine the Bentley Diagram with the Simplifed diagram you posted. The #4 Pin from the Blower Control Unit goes to the 4 Position Rotary Switch as indicated in the Simplified Diagram. The Bentley Diagram Indicates the Heater Lever Contacts (even though the diagram also has the Autoheat wiring). So all that is missing is the 4 postion rotary switch. The following pin connections cross reference the two diagrams to put the switch in the circuit:

4 Pos Sw (Simp Dia) >> Bentley Dia
Pin 1 >> Pin 2 @ Resistor
Pin 2 >> Pin 3 @ Resistor
Pin 3 >> Pin 85 @ relay (luggage compartment)

NOTE: the Bentley manual changes the Pin numbers at the Resistor on its diagrams. Up to the '85 MY they are one way and then for '86 forward they are another way but the diagram is the same. I have used the numbering shown in the 86-87 bentley diagram. This system is bad enough without the "documented" confusion to deal with

There is another more detailed diagram of the circuit with switch in the Carrera - Removing Engine Compartment Heater Blower thread above but it also includes the Autoheat devices. But I think most of the wire paths and connections you are looking for are on the Bentley diagram.

I am not sure how you can have the engine blower running and not have 12V at the switches between the seats unless you are referring to the 4 position switch and not the levers. You should have 12v at Pin 86 & the 4 pos switch if there is 12v at pin 4 on the controller. So there appears to be a break in the circuit as you suspect.

But just to be sure check the fuses in the engine compartment if you have not. Fuse 1 (16A) is for the FW blowers (lower speeds) and is the source for the voltage we are discussing.

Also, when you jumper the relay as mentioned above you are feeding the FW blowers from a completely different power source (25A fuse at luggage compartment fuse panel). So the good news is you appear to have two good FW blowers.

Good Luck
Andrew
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Last edited by aj88cab; 11-19-2009 at 08:02 AM..
Old 11-19-2009, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj88cab View Post
Patrick
The Bentley Diagram Indicates the Heater Lever Contacts (even though the diagram also has the Autoheat wiring). So all that is missing is the 4 postion switch. The following pin connections cross reference the two diagrams to put the switch in the circuit:

4 Pos Sw (Simp Dia) >> Bentley Dia
Pin 1 >> Pin 2 @ Resistor
Pin 2 >> Pin 3 @ Resistor
Pin 3 >> Pin 85 @ relay (luggage compartment)


Good Luck
Andrew
Thank you for your response, Andrew.
Is the "4 position switch" you refer to literally one switch? My car appears to be one of the cars on which the footwell blowers come on low as soon as the heater levers are lifted. The red knob with four positions operates two separate single pole microswitches in the console box. I'm going to have to open it up again and get the wire colors. The link you sent me does at least have some wire colors. Thanks. Any additional help/advice is more than welcome.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:02 AM
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The red levers operate the mirco switch. I believe it is only one switch that either lever operates, but it could be two switches, it's been a awhile since I was inside the center console box.

The 4 position switch is a separate red rotary switch on top of the heater control console numbered 0 to 3. "0" and "1" are the same (slow) speed.

The rotary switch will do nothing unless the red levers are pulled up. You will not have any voltage at the controller Pin 4, the rotary switch, or front relay Pin 86 if the red levers are not up.

If the red levers are up and you do not have voltage at the above locations, start with checking the engine compartment fuse #1 (16A). If the fuse is OK and if you do have 12v at Pin 4 with the lever up (engine blower fan must be running), then the controller is probably good. Open the console and check to see if there is 12v at the rotary switch. There are connectors in the console make sure they are tight. Check the rotary switch, these go bad occationally. With the rotary switch and engine compartment controler disconnected check continuity between the rotary switch connector and Pin 4. Also there are the resistors located in the luggage compartment under the passenger side cowl, but these rarely go bad. There will probably be an unused connector in the console, it is shown on the Bentley diagram, don't worry about it.

If you are not familiar with this system's control circuit this article is a good place to start Carrera Heater Control Circuit along with the thread links above.
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Last edited by aj88cab; 11-19-2009 at 08:40 AM..
Old 11-19-2009, 07:32 AM
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In re-reading this thread I think I've found a partial answer. Mysterytrain said,
"Some time during the Carrera run Porsche wired the footwell blowers to spin at slow speed even in the off position, whenever the rear blower spins. I'm not sure how they altered the wiring to allow this but I mention it so that you are aware that 'Off' and 'position 1' will be the same. My 3 speed heat console has the large dial on the top suface that triggers 3 microswitches in the housing."

My 1988 heat console only has two microswitches actuated by the large red dial. I think my problem lies somewhere in the "altered wiring" Mysterytrain refers to. I'd sure like to get my hands on a schematic.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:47 AM
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You are correct that there are only two physical micro switches on the rotary switch assembly, but they are used in conjuction with the resistors and a diode (shown on diagram) that results in the three available speeds.

Also, I have never seen a '84-'89 Carrera that has not had the same slow speed for rotary switch positions 0 (off) & 1.

The only way to trouble shoot this system is to be methodical and to isolate and check each component... Ask me how I know
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:13 AM
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Pat,
I'm not totally clear on what is functioning, what is not and if the circuit has been tampered with. I have to assume that there is a main harness that moves the voltage from pin 4 from the engine compartment contoller to the heater console between the seats and then forward to the resistor pack and the high speed relay [pin 86]. If you have voltage on pin 4, I would remove the heater console [remove the seat] and look for the connector and 12 volts. The autoheat circuit shows a black wire on pin 4. I would bet this color would remain the same for manual heat and terminate in the console. It appears from the PET diagram it mates with a connector that would route the voltage forward to the resistors, the relay and to the micro switch in the console.
As far as I can tell the 2 micro switch circuit [footwells spin in zero position] works as follows. The black wire from pin 4 must travel to the console and provide power to the number 2 position micro switch and also travel up to terminal 1 on the resistor pack and pin 86 on the high speed relay. The console switch would then only come into play when turned to position 2 and apply voltage to terminal 3. Position 3 provides a ground for the the high speed relay, pin 85.
From the pet drawing it looks like there is a harness of few wires, brown [ground], white, white/black, white green, black. Man, I hope this helps is hard to explain!

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Old 11-19-2009, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterytrain View Post
Pat,
I'm not totally clear on what is functioning, what is not and if the circuit has been tampered with. I have to assume that there is a main harness that moves the voltage from pin 4 from the engine compartment contoller to the heater console between the seats and then forward to the resistor pack and the high speed relay [pin 86]. If you have voltage on pin 4, I would remove the heater console [remove the seat] and look for the connector and 12 volts. The autoheat circuit shows a black wire on pin 4. I would bet this color would remain the same for manual heat and terminate in the console. It appears from the PET diagram it mates with a connector that would route the voltage forward to the resistors, the relay and to the micro switch in the console.
As far as I can tell the 2 micro switch circuit [footwells spin in zero position] works as follows. The black wire from pin 4 must travel to the console and provide power to the number 2 position micro switch and also travel up to terminal 1 on the resistor pack and pin 86 on the high speed relay. The console switch would then only come into play when turned to position 2 and apply voltage to terminal 3. Position 3 provides a ground for the the high speed relay, pin 85.
From the pet drawing it looks like there is a harness of few wires, brown [ground], white, white/black, white green, black. Man, I hope this helps is hard to explain!
Thanks. Yes, it's complicated. I hope you guys have the patience to stick with me as I try to figure this out. The thing is, I don't need the blowers all that much but I've become obsessed with making everything on this car work properly (I'll pause now to let everyone stop laughing)

Your information does help in that I now have some wire colors to look for. The situation is, with the red levers lifted, there is power at pin #4 on the controller in the engine compartment. There is no power at any wire in the 4 position switch in the console between the seats or at #86 on the red relay on the front fuse panel even when there is power at #4. Obviously there is an open in the circuit somewhere.

I'm beginning to suspect that on this system power comes from #4 up to the trunk area first, through some connectors that connect to wires to relay pin #86, the resistors in the trunk area, and to the 4 position switch. The schematics for autoheat and earlier manual systems show power goes from #4 directly to the 4 position switch, then #86 and the resistors etc but at this point I'm skeptical of that being the case on this system. My reasoning is that I'm not getting power at the 4 pos. switch and it seems unlikely that a wire in a hidden, protected harness that runs from the engine area to the tunnel switches would have been molested. It seems VERY likely that someone monkeyed with something in the front trunk area, what with all the blue scotch clips and crap that's up there. The wire has to go from #4 up to the resistors in the trunk area independently of the switch in order to make the fans run on the "0" and "1" knob positions anyway, so maybe it doesn't run through the tunnel past the 4 pos. switch to get there? I dunno. I have to take a few days off before I dive back into this. Thank you for the help and advise.
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Last edited by wdfifteen; 11-19-2009 at 07:18 PM..
Old 11-19-2009, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
It seems VERY likely that someone monkeyed with something in the front trunk area, what with all the blue scotch clips and crap that's up there.
Bingo! If that is the case, it sounds like a potential hack-job to either fix (bypass) a heater system problem, or inadvertantly messing with the heater system when trying to do something else. You are on the right track by trying to figure out what is actually in there. Kept us posted and I am sure you'll get it working right eventually.
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:31 PM
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wdfifteen...Your problem is likely at pin 3. This is a "simplified" diagram which means it is accurate by function/operation...but maybe not exact in other ways.

Both connections marked pin 3 in the diagram are physically in the same place as well as electrically...even though it does not appear so in the simplified drawing. Pin 3 is where the power goes in to the heater control switch and also where it goes out to the Aux Blower Relay. That point is probably disconnected somewhere between pin 4 of the engine compartment controller and pin 3.

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Old 11-19-2009, 10:05 PM
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I agree with Finstone that the link between pin 4 [controller] and pin 3 at the console switch are suspect. I would think that harness would go from the rear fuse panel into the tunnel. The SC's have a muti-pin connector on the rear fuse panel. The carrera's must have a connector also, I can't imagine the panel is hard wired to the harness. Since the wiring has been tampered with I would remove the rear panel and verify that the black wire is still soldered to the controller socket. Then look to see where those wires go. There might be a connector in the engine bay. The harness should then go into the tunnel.
I have to believe that the factory would have access points [like the wiring in your house] so that you could troubleshoot the circuit.
A quick and dirty test for the wiring north of the console would be to apply 12 volts to console connector.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:00 AM
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I am just starting down the same path as the footwell blowers only work on Hi or off. I have pulled the resistor and am looking for guidance on how to test it as the first step for a novice.
Old 07-13-2010, 08:24 AM
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I am just starting down the same path on my '84 911 as the footwell blowers only work on Hi or off. I have pulled the resistor and am looking for guidance on how to test it as the first step for a novice.

Old 07-13-2010, 08:25 AM
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