Heating alternatives

Has anyone out there made a stab at putting together an aftermarket heating system for the 911? I've got a very tight fit in my engine bay for ducting, and I'm considering headers down the line, so even heat exchangers may be out of the picture.

I know there are aftermarket 12V electric heaters, and it seems like I could mount one (or two) of them, more or less permanently, in the front trunk, venting into the hoses that run to the defrost vents and the footwell ducts.

I'm in California, so my heating needs will never be tremendous -- but it was below freezing in the desert this weekend, and I could see my breath as I drove out to the track.

Has anyone done anything like this?

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net

Jack,
Heat is probably the most difficult system for your project. When I did the research for my similar setup I looked into 1) factory gas heaters, which are really not readily available except as parts from older cars and thus suspect from a safty/reliability standpoint, this is unfortunate as it is really the best choice(factory used them on the SC/RS)and allows the use of the Cup/RS 42mm equal length headers. 2) I toyed briefly with the electric heater idea but couldn't find a suitable way to do it. 3) this leaves headers with heat, in this catagory there are only 2 (maybe 3 options) first is B&B which offers a 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" near equal length header with heat, I used the 1 3/4" unit. Second option is FVD they offer a beautiful setup but the cost is prohibitive, third may be GHL I tried to get info about them but was never able to get a satisfactory response, perhaps you will have better luck.
You have an additional problem in that the B&B is setup for the 964 style heat. This worked great on my car with a 964 engine but the heat for the 993 engine is set up quite differently. I don't really know if the B&B can be adapted to the 993 heat. In addition the right bank exhaust studs on your engine are rotated 90 degrees from those used on all previus 911/964 engines. Of course header manufacturers know this and will supply the correct pattern

Might I suggest a Ford F350 with a trailer? I understand the heat in these is phenomenal!

Sorry, I just had to get that in before someone else did.

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

Jack - old VW bugs were notorious for heating maladies. Many aftermarket sytems of various types popped up. Those cars are still popular in your neck of the woods. I'd ask around. JCWhitney (I know) used to sell a gas unit that fit in the trunk and tied into the gas tank. That location sure would be nice.

Hi,

This may not apply for a 911 but here it goes:

In a 914-6, with an oil cooler up front, there was a blower taking warm air past the oil cooler and ducting it to the hoses that go to cabin. Owner said it would supply enough heat to keep him warm and "defrost" once the oil cooler was warm. but not capable to cook him like the heat exchangers could do.

HTH

Marc-Andre Morin
Quebec Canada
70 914-6 conversion 2.2

There are still people out there that will repair the old gas heaters. I think the tough part is finding the used gas heater to begin with.

I am guessing Porsche would use a gas heater from Eberspacher, but there are models made by Espar and Stewart-Warner that may fit. These could be a PITA because if they are mounted in the trunk you still need to vent the exhaust gasses somehow which means cutting

If you have a gas heater that needs repaired let me know and I can point you in the right direction for a repair guy.

All in all I would do something with regular heat exchangers instead of messing with these gas heaters. Unless you are a super serious racer the equal length headers will not make that much of a difference. Plus you would need straight pipes out the rear to keep the 'tuned' effect, a lot of people put on sweet headers and then send the gasses through a spaghetti muffler that nulifies the 'tuning'.



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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

Damn jack!! I Just sold a wabasto, and it ran nicely too.
The wiper assembley is here
for you...........s in Va

Damn jack!! I Just sold a wabasto(sp?) heater from a Vw bus , and it ran nicely too.
The wiper assembley is here
for you...........s in Va

Jack,
I am glad you made this post. I live in the mid-south (Tennessee) and gave no thought to not having heat (I have headers and like the exhaust note and torque). This quick abandonment of the heat notion sort of stemmed from having old hot rod cars with liquid cooled front engines that sooner or later transferred some heat to my feet other than on the bitter cold days that I chose not to drive them. Well, now that I have a rear engine, air cooled project, that can’t transfer a little “body” heat, I have had a rude awakening…I too, need an alternate way to heat the car, at least a little bit. My test drives are exhilarating for about 15 minutes on a mild/cool day (40 degrees), then my feet and hands complain. I can tell you, that the car won’t be much fun without insulated boots and warm clothes if you get cool temps. I will watch your post to see what alternatives come up. A 12v electric heater sounds viable…who makes one?

Jack McAllister

This is probably pretty off the wall, but a long time ago I heard of somebody rigging up hair dryer blowers(12V ??), or something similar. They were attached to the intakes back by the engine compartment. I always thought that kind of thing was an interesting possibility & maybe something to investigate, especially now since I'll be putting headers on my car. But, I live in southern California & probably won't need to do it.

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

I would probably look into 120 volt ceramic heaters and a converter. They are fairly low amperage for a heater, small (8 in cube), not particularly a fire hazard (no coils) and rated at 5000 btu. I don't know about hood mounting and ducting though. Probably best suited for the cabin if you can find the room.

Joe
'80 SC Targa

A jacket, hat, and driving gloves work for me

2 words: Electric socks.

http://www.outdoorworldca.com/products/specs/ls-30.htm

..........and long johns

. . . or a babe in the right-hand seat!!

I have had experience with automotive gas heaters (in a vintage VW and an M38 Military Jeep) and would recommend staying with a factory unit if you decide to go this route. The gas heaters I have had were very specific to the vehicles they were intended for. In addition, they could be very temperamental. Be sure that you properly vent the system.

On a side note, the heat was amazing...be sure to properly duct through the existing system or you will frost your windshield, or melt your feet.

My opinion, keep some form of heat exchangers, skip the electric heater solutions and be cautious of gas heaters…

The old corvairs had optional gasoline heaters. Not very long however, probably due to the risk of fires and corrosion problems. I saw today a 150 watt electric car heater in a HEARTLAND AMERICA catalog item: S2-5679.
(www.heartlandamerica.com)I do not think this is a lot of heat but this is the limitation of 12 volts. As is this means a current draw of 12.5 amps. Depending on how much fresh air you leek in it may be trying to shovel stuff against the tide. Fix the existing system and you should be OK.

George
83 911SC Cab/Euro/PCA
Hoover, Alabama

Just a note concerning the electric idea. Most of my research indicates that the early 911 electical system won't handle the load. You may want to check into that topic a futher just my 2cents.

Skip
77 911

What about what this guy has done (I can't remember whether yours in 964 or 993).

http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/964.html

Or am I all confused.


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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S

Hi Jack, I bought a Webasco heater just for this reason. Do you remember e-mailing me a pic or some information on the subject. Well I have it, it's not quite as pristine as the seller said, but not all bad. A buddy of mine who was a Corvair guy for a long time and fixed his and his buddys gas heaters in there GMC Porsches thinks they are similar and semi easy to fix and get running, the exhaust gas goes out thru the hole in the bottom of the smuglers box were the heater is located. After market instalation instructions are located in the factory service books. This is for the guys in the dealership that would add a heater to a car rather than ordering one and waiting. There is a good pic of the plumbing of heater lines in the owners manual of my 1971 car.

Here are some thoughts, I spoke with John Daniels who owns SSI or Stainless Steel Inc. I was intrested in there heat exchangers in sizes larger that 1 1/2". He said that they were working on exhaust boxes for the newer cars. Should check wtih him and see if his new product can help you and what his time frame is on release.

When my motor is on the dyno, if the motor wizard has time I want him to run the motor in three different configurations. A set of George headers and a sport muffler, SSI's and a sport muffler, and SSI's and a stock muffler. He will give me HP and torque charts for all three, plus his notes on carb changes to make the three work. This is for my own knowlage, it will be an intresting test to see how much differenc there REALLY is in the different setups.

Randy Jones
1971 911