Possible "barn" find

jasonmx5 · jasonmx5's Garage

OK, so it's not in a barn, (more like a temporary garage) but you get the idea.

Been sitting in there for a few years.

1969 911T

Body looks straight and free of corrosion. Trying to get more details about the motor(s). Headed back this afternoon for better pics. Any idea what something like this, even with a "hot-rodded" motor, is worth if it's cleaned up?

Thanks!
Jason

jkh2cpu · jkh2cpu's Garage

Well, how much experience do you have with Porsche rust? Porsche did not start the galvanized steel body parts until May, 1970, and that was just the undercarriage. I'd wonder if it would jack up using the jack receiver... When I sent my beauty to the body shop 20 years ago, I removed the motor first... Jacking with my jack pad in the receiver caused the jack receiver to give way: I jacked the car up with the jack under the motor... The help of someone experienced with Porsche bodies would be a big plus... and a pointy object to press against the metal... If the owner protests, you don't want the car unless you love anguish and tears, and can see the light at the end of the tunnel, even though there is a 90 degree turn in the middle of said tunnel ;-)

deathpunk dan · 07-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Jason
I know what car you are talking about. The seller emailed me pictures. I have no $ or space or time for it though...

If it's really rust free and the paint is saveable, it might be a good deal. I don't think that the spare engine is original though...69 T's had steel cylinders...those look different... Is he open to offers or is the asking price firm?

Are you prepared to go through this thing....new susp components, tires, brake flex lines, possible master cylinder rebuild, rebuild the calipers, go through the interior etc?

The motor specs (2.7 crank and 2.2 P/Cs) sound interesting. Wonder which cams?

Would be a good project and good T engines are often sold here for short money in the event the 2.4l is fubar'd.

LMK how it all plays out

Dan

jkarolyi · 07-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Looks like a nice find...but don't try to start the motor. Fuel goes bad after sitting for one year...after multiple years the fuel turns to varnish. Sucking bad fuel into the carbs/engine can cause problems. Here are the instructions I have for reviving a long-stored engine properly:

For starting a long-stored engine, change out all the fuel , including all the fuel in all the fuel lines. In fact, replacing all the fuel lines and getting the fuel tank boiled is a good idea. You don't want to suck ANY old fuel or gunk into the fuel injection (or carbs) at all. Webers seem to stand up to storage much better than the MFI or CIS. They still will probably need rebuilt.

Before starting the motor, go to Pep Boys or Autozone or a similar store and buy some Marvel Mystery Oil. It sounds like a silly product but it really does work. Make sure you get the "original" oil and not the air tool oil or such. Put the oil in thru the spark plug hole, (get a long skinny funnel and put in about 1/4 cup of it) , and let it sit for a few days (a week?).

Change the oil following the directions on this website (or Wayne's book). Then crank her over for about a minute, pausing every 10 seconds or so to let the starter rest, with the spark plugs out (otherwise you can hydrolock the engine with the Mystery oil), until you see oil pressure register on the interior guage. Replace plugs and start the car. You can drive it a few times on this oil, but I would change it and the filter again pretty quickly. I've seen a lot of tiny metal shavings in the oil from just a few minutes of running after storage.

I've revived several long-stored engines using this method. Best of luck,

jasonmx5 · jasonmx5's Garage

Thanks for the advice on reviving the engine. I do have the space (3+ car garage). Money is another issue sometimes, but as a project, I usually find my way around that. Just added some exterior pics the seller sent over - Dan these are the ones you probably have as well. Thinking of low-balling him to see what kind of response I get.

TV74911S · 07-10-2009, 08:40 AM

Hey Jason:
From what I have been seeing on a variety of sites in our area, the prices on older 911s that have been restored/restored to original condition have been climbing.

European Locators in Framingham have three early 911s for sale on their website starting at $20K + for 73 in good shape to $73K for a completely restored '70 911s
Whether they will get these prices or not remains to be seen, but it at least gives you an idea. It appears that the more original the car (matchiing numbers, correct paint, proper upgrades, modifications) the higher the price, but i am hardly an expert.

Regards,
Tony V (just up the road from you in Bedford)
74 911s (Gretchen)

T77911S · 07-10-2009, 09:04 AM

is that orange paint on the rear where the deck lid closes?
k&n water shields and filters dont look too old.
rust near the mirror?

jasonmx5 · jasonmx5's Garage

Tony V - what are you up to tonight? I'm going over to take another look at this, then bringing my Carrera over to Merrimack. There is a big (sometimes 200+ cars) car show there every friday night at the Target on 101A. If you are free, stop by!

The car was re-sprayed, at some point and for the most part, it looks like a decent job. Better than the one on my 77 for sure. The orange you see in the corner is a wiring harness that runs the lights to the rear decklid. You can see them flanking the latch. There is a bit of bare metal near that mirror, but it's not rot, just on the surface, probably from sitting for 2 years.

LakeCleElum · 07-10-2009, 09:49 AM

Walk away, looks like a rust bucket.

I bought a '69 911T for $2K a few years ago that is ten times better with a fresh engine that runs...

jkarolyi · 07-10-2009, 10:46 AM

Where do you see rust? This car deserves further investigation, and prices are always negotiable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

I bought a '69 911T for $2K a few years ago that is ten times better with a fresh engine that runs...

What is your point? I bought a '72 911E Coupe in nearly perfect condition for $4500 back at the peak of values in 2004. Are you trying to start a bragging war here?

jasonmx5 · jasonmx5's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Walk away, looks like a rust bucket.

Having seen the car first hand, I can tell you it isn't a rust bucket. There is some surface rust issue near that mirror on the DS, but other than that, there isn't any rust any where else. I checked the battery areas, behind the wheels, jack points, where the a-pillar meets the front fenders/cowl, door sills, etc.

At first glance it looks like it's a rotted hulk, but it is all just dirt and grime that have built up on the thing. It is parked on the side of a dirt driveway, and I'm sure that's were most of the dirt came from - dusted up from under the gaps of the temporary garage.

When they parked it in '07, they were even smart enough to put a tarp under it to serve as a barrier to keep moisture from coming up through the gravel it's parked on.

Jagshund · 07-10-2009, 11:10 AM

Rust buckets need love, too. Compared to my car's starting point, this car could be a contender for display at the new Porsche museum.

jasonmx5 · jasonmx5's Garage

A deal is coming together . . . (with a little help from OPM)

Stay tuned . . .

dmcummins · 07-10-2009, 11:46 AM

You have to assume that there is a reason someone parked it. That usually means engine or trans problems. I'm really not sure where the prices are on these, but I have bought a few in this condition and I'm going to go look at one soon that is probably in similar shape. You have to be very careful because its so easy to spend way more than they are worth. As everyone else has said, check for rust, fenders are expensive, rocker's, suspension points, rear deck, rear seat area, floors, door jambs, ect.

I spent around 10k each on my last two project cars and they were both running, not counting the initial price of the car. And I did all the work myself. It took 3 years on my 73.

I would price the car as parts. 1,000-1,500 for the body if its in good shape, 1,500 for the motor and trans. You have to assume they are cores. So I wouldn't pay more than 3,000 unless it looks alot better in person. The condition of the dash, and door pockets, ect could mean alittle more money. I would assume it needs all the suspension replaced, shock, bushings, ect. and most likely the interior needs everything also. All that adds up quickly.

But It also depends on how bad you want it. There is always someone with a better deal, but do you want to keep looking, hopeing to find one?

Good luck

Porsche_monkey · 07-10-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonmx5

Any idea what something like this, even with a "hot-rodded" motor, is worth if it's cleaned up?

Thanks!
Jason

Of greater importance I would wonder the following:

Quote:

Any idea what something like this would cost to restore?

If you do not know the answer to the question above, and you can't do the work yourself, you should be concerned about the cost of this project.

mike monde · 07-10-2009, 12:10 PM

Any idea what something like this would cost to restore?

Allot

Porsche_monkey · 07-10-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike monde

Any idea what something like this would cost to restore?

Allot

The final selling price + 30% is typical.

dmcummins · 07-10-2009, 12:42 PM

I bought my 73 and drove it 200 miles home.

Dont let the picture fool you, the paint was awful.

Here it is after around 3 years of buying parts from here and the classifieds. And also doing all the work myself.

I still spent around 10k not including the initial price of the car.

But I also know what has been done to the car, all new suspension, rubber, paint, interior, ect.

jac1976 · 07-10-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcummins

You have to assume that there is a reason someone parked it. That usually means engine or trans problems. I'm really not sure where the prices are on these, but I have bought a few in this condition and I'm going to go look at one soon that is probably in similar shape.

Maybe the norm, but not the rule. I know of a 73.5T parked 12 years ago because the owner no longer felt safe driving it. Ran like a top at the time. These cars do exist and this is part of the "barn find" fun...finding these exceptions.

dmcummins · 07-10-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jac1976

Maybe the norm, but not the rule. I know of a 73.5T parked 12 years ago because the owner no longer felt safe driving it. Ran like a top at the time. These cars do exist and this is part of the "barn find" fun...finding these exceptions.

Yep, but its better to be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.