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-   -   Replacing the valve stem seal (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/490990-replacing-valve-stem-seal.html)

Porscheke 08-11-2009 02:30 AM

Replacing the valve stem seal
 
As mentioned in the title I'm planning to replace the valve stem seals.

Is it possible when the engine is still complete. I mean without removing the heads.

Has anyone done this before?
-Pictures
-Tools
-Attention points

All info is welcome

rootmatt 08-11-2009 04:02 AM

Sure is possible. Using a pair of valve spring compressors available from our host, you can do valve stem seals and springs/retainers/spring-seats with the heads and cam carriers in place. Easiest if the engine is out on a stand with the exhaust and inlet manifolds removed. That way, if a valve drops in a bit, you can lift it using a finger through the exhaust/inlet port concerned. Otherwise, you can keep the valves up by using compressed air in the cylinder via the spark plug hole or just set the piston to top-dead-centre for the cylinder you are working on. Fiddly job but quite possible. Warn your friends and neighbours to expect the odd cuss.

Matt

calling911 08-11-2009 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rootmatt (Post 4829129)
Sure is possible. Using a pair of valve spring compressors available from our host, you can do valve stem seals and springs/retainers/seats with the heads and cam carriers in place. Easiest if the engine is out on a stand with the exhaust and inlet manifolds removed. That way, if a valve drops in a bit, you can lift it using a finger through the exhaust/inlet port concerned. Otherwise, you can keep the valves up by using compressed air in the cylinder via the spark plug hole or just set the piston to top-dead-centre for the cylinder you are working on. Fiddly job but quite possible. Warn your friends and neighbours to expect the odd cuss.

Matt

WOW! I did not know this!! this is VERY COOL!

euro911sc 08-11-2009 05:53 AM

If you are replacing the springs and retainers I would expect that you would need to ensure the proper height on re-assy. Otherwise, just make sure all the same parts from the same valve go back on it. Best way to do that is to do only 1 at a time.

Enjoy!

-Michael

Porscheke 08-11-2009 06:15 AM

Hello Rootmatt

Thanks for the info

Concerning the compressor, do you mean this type:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ke/KD-3271.jpg

Other question:
The valves seals can they just be removed by hand?

HawgRyder 08-11-2009 06:51 AM

If you don't have access to compressed air...the old time method was to feed sash cord into the cylinder and then turn the engine over gently to push the cord up against the valves (holding them closed) and then use the valve spring compressor to change the seals.
Hope this helps
Bob

rick-l 08-11-2009 07:02 AM

Just out of curiosity, what kind of car do you have and what is your oil consumption?

Gunter 08-11-2009 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porscheke (Post 4829281)
Hello Rootmatt

Thanks for the info

Concerning the compressor, do you mean this type:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ke/KD-3271.jpg

Other question:
The valves seals can they just be removed by hand?

Not enough room for a standard compressor, you'll need these:

PEL-TOL-P7E Valve Spring Compressor, Exhaust, 911 (1965-89) [More Info]
Valve Spring Tools
[view in catalog] $59.60

PEL-TOL-P71 Valve Spring Compressor, Intake, 911 (1965-89) [More Info]
Valve Spring Tools
[view in catalog] $59.60

Remove the exhaust and HE's, move each cylinder to TDC, pressurize with compressed air into the plug hole.

Porscheke 08-11-2009 11:06 PM

I want to do this job on a 964 engine.

So the picture I added in my previous post will not do the job????

Oil consumption -> It's on the engine that stood still for many years ....

I want do do this because there was oil in the exhaust, so the valves seals don't do the job any more (see also my post off the engine with lot of pictures)


Can anyone here confirm me which compressor is perfect to do the job on intake and outlet valves for a 964 engine

Steve@Rennsport 08-12-2009 12:27 AM

JMHO,....

If your guides are worn, all the new seals in the world will not fix your problem. :)

I'd kindly recommend you measure the valve stem sideplay in the guide before doing anything.

Porscheke 08-12-2009 12:36 AM

Hello Steve

You are right.

But to give you some more information the engine was stalled for a long time, also previous owner filled the engine way to much (12L only from the engine)

So my guess is that oil has found his way trough the seals after these years.

still I'm also planning to check the play of the guides but still i need the right tool for disassemble the spring from the valves.

So for my question at this moment what kind of valve compressor should/ or can I use for a 964 engine

rootmatt 08-12-2009 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porscheke (Post 4831348)

So for my question at this moment what kind of valve compressor should/ or can I use for a 964 engine

964, eh? The compressors I used were the ones listed by Gunter (thanks). Our host's catalog suggests they are also applicable for the 964 but specifies a year range of '65-'89. I have no idea what happened after '89. Hope yours is an early one!

Re the stem seals: If they're like the earlier ones (mine is an '82 SC) then, once the springs are out of the way, they just pull off with a bit of encouragement. I may have gently gripped them with pliers:eek: .

Matt

Porscheke 08-12-2009 11:12 PM

Hello Rootmatt

I want to buy such a valve compressor as shown here in the thread, but if I look at the info from our host they mention indeed 65-89.

A 964 car is build between 89-94 so I'm not sure if I can use this kind of compressor???

Can anyone here confirm if it's possible with this tool?

mytoy 08-13-2009 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rootmatt (Post 4829129)
Sure is possible. Using a pair of valve spring compressors available from our host, you can do valve stem seals and springs/retainers/seats with the heads and cam carriers in place. Easiest if the engine is out on a stand with the exhaust and inlet manifolds removed. That way, if a valve drops in a bit, you can lift it using a finger through the exhaust/inlet port concerned. Otherwise, you can keep the valves up by using compressed air in the cylinder via the spark plug hole or just set the piston to top-dead-centre for the cylinder you are working on. Fiddly job but quite possible. Warn your friends and neighbours to expect the odd cuss.

Matt

Matt

Could you please explain in further depth how to do the seats with the heads and cam carriers in place? I would like to do the valve seats and the seals on my car and if I do not have to remove the heads this would be great.

rootmatt 08-13-2009 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytoy (Post 4833305)
Matt

Could you please explain in further depth how to do the seats with the heads and cam carriers in place? I would like to do the valve seats and the seals on my car and if I do not have to remove the heads this would be great.

Hi Gary

It appears I may have been a bit vague when I referred to seats. What I meant was the the "valve spring seat", Cat. No. 901-105-463-00-M100, that I had to replace when I broke a valve spring and it caused a mess in the nearby vicinity. I'll edit to clarify.

The valve spring seats are simple enough. With the valve covers off, install a spring compressor on a valve spring retainer. Make arrangements for the valve to remain up while you compress the spring and remove the spring keepers. Remove compressor, retainer, spring, seat and shims. Reassemble. Fiddly but not difficult.

Sorry to disappoint if you wanted to do "valve seats". I doubt that is possible.

Matt

rootmatt 08-13-2009 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porscheke (Post 4833253)
Hello Rootmatt

I want to buy such a valve compressor as shown here in the thread, but if I look at the info from our host they mention indeed 65-89.

A 964 car is build between 89-94 so I'm not sure if I can use this kind of compressor???

Can anyone here confirm if it's possible with this tool?

Hi

I checked the catalog and it appears that the compressors listed are OK for '89 964s but no later. No alternative is offered for later cars. I think an inquiry direct to our host may help.

I'll have to bow out here as I have never worked on a 964. I hope someone else can chime in. I believe there is a Pelican 964/993 forum that may be more helpful.

Matt

rcaradimos 08-04-2010 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rootmatt (Post 4831566)
964, eh? The compressors I used were the ones listed by Gunter (thanks). Our host's catalog suggests they are also applicable for the 964 but specifies a year range of '65-'89. I have no idea what happened after '89. Hope yours is an early one!

Re the stem seals: If they're like the earlier ones (mine is an '82 SC) then, once the springs are out of the way, they just pull off with a bit of encouragement. I may have gently gripped them with pliers:eek: .

Matt

Hey Matt,
Did you replace the worn valve seals with engine in the car or did you drop the engine? will the valve stay up enough to do the work, if that cylinder is at TDC?
LMK
Thanks

rootmatt 08-05-2010 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaradimos (Post 5489863)
Hey Matt,
Did you replace the worn valve seals with engine in the car or did you drop the engine? will the valve stay up enough to do the work, if that cylinder is at TDC?
LMK
Thanks

Hi

I had a bent valve stem as a result of a broken valve spring. I pulled the motor and put it on a stand and stripped it just enough to remove one head to change the valve. As I had one broken spring, I replaced all twelve sets and used new viton stem seals while I was in there (there's that phrase again!). Given the fiddly nature of the job, I'm glad I had the engine out. Still, others may have left the motor in?

As for your second question, the memory is a bit fuzzy. I recall the valve dropped "a bit" while I was fiddling with the springs, seals, retainers etc. What made it no problem was that it didn't drop far before resting on the piston and I could use a finger through the intake or exhaust port to push the valve up via its stem before adding the keepers. IIRC, it was necessary to have the valve all the way up (using the finger) in order for the keepers to go in properly.

Cheers

Matt

retrogarage 08-05-2010 08:29 AM

Valve stem seals
 
I just did this operation on my 2.7 w/22K. Car sat for years and had all the symptoms of worn guides. Much easier if engine is removed. But yes it can be done with heads on. It will take some patience with the keepers. Make sure your new seals are round and true. I bought all new with 3 being oblong. I had to reorder a few. Do the same and order a few exrta. Compressing tools from host worked great. ABSOLUTELY NO BURNING OIL NOW. The white seals seem very hard compared to the vulcanized rubber ones.

rcaradimos 08-05-2010 03:37 PM

I think my exhaust seals on the left (cat side) are leaking,
1. I would need to remove the cat
2. remove valve cover
3. remove rocker shaft and rocker (not sure how that is done) any tips???
4. place cylinder at TDC ( will that prevent valve from dropping into cylinder head and give me enough of the stem to work with to get the keepers back on???)
5. remove keepers, retainer, springs, spring seat, worn valve seal.
6. replace seal and all parts in reverse order.
7. adjust valve(s)
Any pics and tips would be appreciated.
Thanks,


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