RSR spec car at Goodwood

[Nigel_Thomas]

Hi everyone, I am a new member.

Can anyone shed any light on the RSR spec car in the auction at the Goodwood Revival next weekend ?

This Martini car has been driven by WRC star Francois Delecour for the last 3 years and won the Czech rally championship in 2003 and 2004.

The car features the best equipment and a full race 3l engine and has HTP papers of course.

I have seen the HTP papers before a couple of years ago and I am sure the vin was 911 360 then four more numbers which I cant remember.

Can anyone give me some history it certainly seems to have been raced by Robert Droogmans as well from what I found on the web.

Thanks.

[rfn026]

Is it a clone - or a real RSR?

Richard

[avi8torny]

This post almost sounds like another advertisement. I'll bet the auctioneer has all the pedigree info for the car available online for a registered buyer.

[Nigel_Thomas]

Hi there,
No its not an ad !

Its a genuine question, if anyone has any thoughts or information.

Thanks for the help.

[CurtEgerer]

There's info on the Bonham's site, although the fotos don't seem to be popping up anymore. Anyway its a '350' car. Must be well-built if Delecour and Droogmans were driving it.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4406657&iSaleNo=17261&iSaleSectionNo=2

[Nigel_Thomas]

Hi there,
Thanks for your response.

Interesting that it has a 350 number on the ad, yet a 360 on the FIA HTP papers, do you think it could be a real RS under all those Martini stripes ? Which by the way are stickers !!

Under the Martini stickers its Gulf Blue. Its really nicely put together with some really expensive RSR parts. Do you think its worth the £75k ?

Thanks
Regards
NT

[juicersr]

Caveat Emptor my friend.

Do your homework with VIN's, documentation, etc or you may get badly burned as others have.

Honestly, if it was based on a real RS, you can bet the seller would be trumpeting the hell out of that.

Reading between the lines of all the blah-blah, sounds like just another plain jane 73 that someone puts some interesting, but not unobtanium, stuff into.

[fryardds]

Yeah, this is a 'make believe' race car made from a ROW '73 T chassis, big deal.

[kiwiokie]

Granted not a factory "race car" but certainly looks like a "race car" to me. Is it worth 75k sterling? Probably comes down to how much it would cost to build the same car yourself. I have seen reference on this forum to folks that have spent half that on an engine build alone so it may depend on what has gone into it.

[Jim Garfield]

Brian, although this car is not one of the '74 homologation cars, it does have many "for sports purposes" modifications and, according to Bonhams, won the Czech National Championship (?) in '03 and '04. So apparently, not, make believe. I agree that the description is a bit obtuse though. I would want to do more research if I was considering this car.

[rfn026]

It's pretty easy to calculate the real value. You just figure the car is worth half of what the owner has invested in it.

It has to be a clone since an owner would be shouting from the roof that it's a real RSR with period history.

Richard

[davidbir]

There is a trend in Europe to build cars to the Nth degree as a replica of a period competition car and then develop a good, but modern competition history. Given that the real thing is worth hundreds of thousands the justification is that if it goes as well (or better) it has to be worth at least half of what a real one would be. Lotus Elans converted to 26R specification are another example-a real 26R is now worth about 150,000 GB pounds but sir, we can sell you this "Championship winning" replica for only 100, 000!! And it will beat the real ones....
Such a deal!! Caveat Emptor as somebody else already said.

[fryardds]

Yes, I was a bit harsh with comment for sure, but as Dave mentions, this European trend to make a period looking race car and then enter it in modern, continuation events (with the blessing of the FIA) and then decribe it as this car with an important race car strikes me as silly.

[johndglynn]

It's the Delecour car alright and Droogmans did drive it. It's recently been through Bob Watson's workshop here in the UK, no idea what Bob did & I missed my chance to go see it. But it sounds like an interesting car.

A contact of mine owns it at the minute but you know as much as I do!

[jorian]

..........a good, but modern competition history..............

+1

The 'real deal' it's not but it's probably a good deal on a fully sorted vintage rig that would gain you entry into any number of high profile events.

[Nigel_Thomas]

Thank you very much for your input everyone, you are very kind to offer your thoughts and experience.

I shall definitely do my homework and look at the documents at Goodwood prior to the auction.

I think a car with this history, HTP papers and apparently costs of £200k + according to my sources, makes it interesting.

Thanks again

[slw911SC]

This is easy. For between 75 and 85,000 pounds Stirling (average at, say, 80,000 = about 160,000 to 170,000 USD) there is no way this is a real 73/74 RSR. Like someone said, it's a built up clone on, maybe, a 73T or 74S. Looks good, though! Have fun at Goodwood. Wish I was going again this year - but went to Monterey instead. A few real RSR's there!

[Nigel_Thomas]

Hi SLR 911SC,
I totally agree wih what you say, I dont think the advert is suggesting that it is a real RSR, they are £400-500k as a starting point, but I have it on good authority that this could be a 73 RS that has been built to RSR spec and with an unusual competition history, which makes it interesting I think.

Thanks for the input you are very kind.

[DW SD]

Originally Posted by Nigel_Thomas

Hi SLR 911SC,
I totally agree wih what you say, I dont think the advert is suggesting that it is a real RSR, they are £400-500k as a starting point, but I have it on good authority that this could be a 73 RS that has been built to RSR spec and with an unusual competition history, which makes it interesting I think.

Thanks for the input you are very kind.

Nigel,
If you have it on good authority that the car is a real RS in wolves (RSR) clothing, why announce it here? Would that not create competition for yourself or are you not a buyer? You've claimed not to be advertising the car.

As was proposed early on, it seems that your comments are an effort to hype the car. Is this not true?

Just curious, what is your motivation and relationship to the car?

Doug

[jorian]

A 73 RS converted to an RSR makes it neither one and diminishes the value of the 'real' 73 RS it started as. The only caveat would be if the factory carried out the conversion which they obviously didn't.