Camber Adjustment Problem
 

I'm messing around with suspension adjustments. When I turn the camber adjustment bolts on the rear axle, I cannot seem to dial enough camber OUT of the axle. Visually, it looks like the bolt can turn 360 degrees, so it bottoms out at one end and tops out 180 degrees farther. I watch the disk and hub, and I think I can tell when camber is as positive (or as little negative) as possible. The problem is I end up with about 1.5 degrees negative camber on one side, and about 2 degrees on the other side. What am I doing wrong?

Similar problem in the front. I move the top of the strut as far out as possible (or so it seems to me) and I still get -1.25 on one side and -1.6 on the other. My garage floor is probably not level but regardless, I should be able to get zero degrees on at least one front side, and -1.0 degrees on the other side......since that's stock speck and all.........

I wonder if I need to mess with toe and/or caster settings in order to achieve the camber I want. I dunno, I just know that I should be able to get 0 degrees front and -1 degree rear.

Sounds to me like the eccentric bolts are exactly opposite of one another.

rear-You may try removing the one that you can't get "correct" and re-install it identical to the other.

I would at least get your head in there and see if you can see a noticable difference in the two, in relation to where they are on the springplate.

I know, easier said than done but I'm not sure what else you can do.

You should remove the toe eccentric when adjusting camber in the rear, then reinstall them once you're ready to set to. Otherwise it may foul the camber adjustment.

In the front, the reason is that the car is lowered. In order to get factory setting range you'd have to set it at stock ride height.

Thanks, Wayne and Tyson.

Tyson, you once said you'd probably be the best person to align my car in this area but that you did not have access to an alignment machine. I was skeptical but ultimately came to believe that was true. I just wish you lived in the Pacific Northwest. Oh, wait a minute........

Okay, I'll limit negative camber in the front as much as possible. And perhaps because the car is lowered, same thing with the rear. I will go ahead and remove the toe bolts and start over. The problem with home alignments is that without a rack and turntables, you wind up raising and lowering the car about a hundred times. Or more. I'll keep them (front and rear) about a degree apart, or half.

you can get a set of wiggle plates for the wheels from summit or jegs. Then you just bounce the car.

Much of your camber has to do with ride height. If too low it will be impossible to dail in more positive camber. Try placing a floor jack under the rear or front and you will see how quickly the camber changes to your specs as well as telling you how high you need to go to get what you want.

if you are raising and lowering the car, you are working your tail off. i would not want to do it. i just had mine done. he set my car on scales on these stands so he could roll under it. even that way he was up and down a lot. it took a while to get my right rear set. i was wearing out the inside of my right rear. before he started, no major problems found, so he set both sides to 1.5 and 1mm toe in.

any chance your car has been wrecked?

i assume you are settling the car each time you lower it.

if you suspect the level of your carport, turn the car around and put it in the same spot and check it again. i would do this as a final check anyway.

Super,

What are you using for a camber gauge?
The floor has to be level.
I have a home-made camber gauge and got to the nearest truck weigh scale after hours to check the settings on four wheels and note them.

My fender heights are 25" front, 24.5 rear with Camber 1.5 deg rear and 1 deg front, Toe-in 1/16" total front, Neutral (0) rear; drives like a dream!

I set the Toes first, then do the Cambers, then re-check the Toe.

The rear Toe bolt does not have to be removed to change Camber; there is a slot in the trailing arm for the toe-bolt to allow for movement up and down.
I use the simple way to check Toe front and rear: Steering wheel straight and 2 Jack stands with a string, works great.

Decide first what height you want.
I index the T-bars for height first and set the smaller position lever in the center of the spring plate so the eccentric bolt can be used for fine-tuning the corner balance later.

It'll take a few tries before it all falls into place.
Try 1/2 deg neg front and 1 deg neg rear.

Have fun.

I have a camber gauge. Bubble type. It can also measure caster, if I can figure out how to use it.

My garage floor is not level. Camber measurements change depending on the orientation of the car on the garage floor.

Like Gunter, I am using floor jacks and strings to measure toe. And like him, I intend to use the DOT truck scales during those times when they are not being manned. This actually works pretty well. And so does the string method and my small camber gauge. The trouble is that I have to raise and lower the car, particularly the rear, to make adjustments. The pros do this with the car on a rack.

I want the car to be fairly low, and am willing to accept a bit of negative camber to achieve that, but I don't want any more negative camber than necessary. I discussed this with Mr. Verberg. The car is rarely if ever tracked. I AX sometimes, but am not willing to pay the price to become competitive in the P2 class here in the PNW region. I have 22/29 torsion bars, late Carrera sways. To be competitive, I would need R=compoud tires, 23/33 torsion bars, adjustable sways, 951 front wheels, F/R camber of 2-3 degrees, etc. Nobody is going to be competitive in this region without that, and I want to drive my car on the street. With street6 tires, and driving somewhat sanely, that muc h negative camber (2-3 degrees) would reduce the car's stability, not increase it.

I've only raised and lowered the car a couple of dozen times so far. That's just the beginning. Having your car professionally aligned is not a bad idea. At $400 or so, it's a bargain.

Sounds good.

After visiting the DOT scales, I go by my notes and adjust the camber by scribing first inside the trailing arm/spring plate window for reference, then adjust.

Yes, it takes a few tries and visits to the scales.

If you go for an alignment, you'll have to decide beforehand about height, Camber and Toe so the Tech can do it to your specs.

I ONLY do lots of spirited street driving and recommend the slight negative cambers front and rear without experiencing uneven tire-wear.

Agree that $400.- is a bargain if everything can be done at once like height, specs, corner balance etc.
It's a lot to do. :)

TruLine in Seattle seems to be it?

Sometimes the rear doesn't want to move very easily to extent it can. I have found that removing the bottom bolt of the shock makes things easier to move. Problem is it is also much harder to work with as the banana arm is no longer support. But if you want the max adjustment it is easier with shock disconnected. Also don't forget you change the rear camber you have to also set the rear toe.

I can not get to zero front toe. Where you are is also about the min I can get. I can however get zero in the back. I think you will not be effected however by having a bit of rear camber. If you look at most cars there is some rear camber. I think it would be difficult to adjust with weight on the car. I tried one time and couldn't turn anything.

I agree. The weight of the car has to be neutralized to adjust height. :)

Sorry doing too many things at once. I can't get zero front camber...

Still can never get zero toe because zero is an absolute setting and I will always be just a little bit off. SmileWavy trying to redeem myself. I should know better than to make a statement like that.

Considering that stock 205/55 in front have a certain "roll" when cornering, Zero camber never made any sense to me even though it's a factory setting.

Having gone through several sets of tires over the years, I can say that a small neg camber seems to be about right going by performance and wear.

I just do street driving. :)

I took my concentric bolts out and marked them with a felt pen so I knew when they are at there extreams.

You could do this and start at there most upright setting. Then only back off one of them if needed to ballance side to side and go from there.

I have possibly a dumb question on camber....I've been staring at the camber adjustment bolt/nut whatever thing and can't for the life of me figure out how it adjusts the camber. Can someone tell me what it's doing?
I ask b/c my rr tire is substantially worn relative to the lr tire, in particular on the inside. There is no "cupping" that I can see. I guess this could be too much camber OR too much toe out. I've been reading the threads on adjusting this yourself but I'm not getting a good mental picture of how this works. I'll probably just take it to a local shop but I may give it a shot since I like to do my own work and I'm going to have to replace the rear tires anyway.
BTW, I get how toe in/out can be adjusted...it's a function of the trailing arm length...correct? As you move it out/longer it rotates the tire "out" increasing toe out...correct?
Thanks,

helps to do it for the first time. the eccentrics pull/push the springplate relative to the swingarm. amazing to see it work the first time.

Supe..i just did this DIY. we had scales and a level surface. i cant see how you can get an accurate read with a unlevel floor.

Yes, level ground is a must for setting Camber and Toe and height and corner-balance.

Decide on height because setting Camber will affect height; both are kind of going together.

Assuming that everything is hanging loose, i.e. no tension from the T-bar and shock disconnected, set the short lever in the middle of the spring plate so that you have approximately 1/2" up or down with the eccentric bolt later.

If the tub is not distorted, both sides should have the same adjustment/setting/position of the spring plates when on level ground.

Decide on Camber and Toe according to tire size and style of driving. :)

I think it makes sense to calibrate the garage floor with a 6' bubble level, set on a stack of quarters on each end to compensate for concrete waves.

The eccentric bolts need to act upon the banana arm with the pinch bolts on the radius arm fairly tight.

You may have to snug up the two pinch bolts to bring the bannana arm and the radius arm back into snug fit, then loosen them so that the eccentric can move the bannana arm relative to the radius arm.

Don't know if my explanation is making sense, but I learned this when I did my own home alignment, and finally figured it out. Another thing, you might grease the two halves of the radius arm, and put a dimple in the eccentric bolts to act as a visual reference, so you know where the cam action is when it's inside the bannana arm.

OK this has been drawn out in some very nice graphics but I don't feel like searching right now.So you are correct on the toe. It is basically just the lenght of the spring plate compared to the inner pivot point of the control arm. Because the inner point is fixed when you make the spring plate longer the control must move. It does so in a arc which causes the tow to change. Longer spring plate more toe out. Shorter More toe in. Keep in mind that in the rear toe is independent for each side. They will not self align (average out) like the front.

Now for camber. Take the same control arm and imagine an "L" shape. with the end of the long piece attached at the inner pivot point and on the little end there is a plate. The plate would be the hub. Now instead of keeping the plate on the end of the "L" square to the control arm, turn it a bit so it is square to the car not the control arm then glue the entire thing togeather. Now the inner attachment point of the control arm due to the rubber bushing can rotate as well as go back and forth. So if you rotate the little assembly above with the end of the control arm as a pivot. This causes the little end of the "L" to move in a arc. Then because the control arm angles back instead of coming straight out of the car, as the little end of the "L" rotates with the control arm the plate on the end must follow in an arc. This translates to the hub rotating in and out causing the camber adjustment. But the arc is not perfect also due to the angle. So when it moves in and out it also moves front to back. So any adjustment to camber will change the toe setting. Now looking at the above i doubt it is anymore clear. And what I tried to decribe is a super simplification of the geometry of the rear control arm. When I say glue I mean it is cast that way.
Anyhow rotate the control arm to change camber, move control arm front and back to change toe keeping in mind that everything effects everyting else. Here is a down and dirty way to check. Stand back and take a look. You can generally see large camber errors like if something came loose or was way off. Else get a level floor. I like to use a couple of cheap sears laser levels. Then read about string alignment. I am gonna catch crap for this but you can also put a long piece of conduit 10' across the face of the rear tire and see how it looks compared to the side of the car, compared to the other side. This is a gross observation only but will indicate again if something is really wrong.
As for the wear on the inside of only one tire. If you do not have limited slip you will likley see more wear on one tire. If toe were off the tread would be feathered. Anyhow good luck and if you try and can't get it perfect just get is close as indicated above then head to alignment shop. Remember to search for String alignment but laster work very well.