Part it or save it - what would you do?
 

So I bought this 1971 T

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254778950.jpg


I knew it had some warts. Picture makes it look much better than it is. Knew it had some covered up rust areas. Then I found a rust hole in the sill area behind the driver seat. Took the grinder to it then cut it out. This is what I found


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So obviously, there will be bad stuff on the outside. Everything had been covered over with some kind of filler that was rock hard and felt like metal and the entire car had undercoating sprayed on it, but took out the grinder again and found this (used to be the jack receiver:




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So I started trying all the other areas that might be a concern:

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There's more filler than metal on parts of the car. Will need outer and inner rockers, jack receivers, lock posts, two doors, two fenders (buckets had rust as well), hood, decklid. Basically, every freaking panel.

So, should I save it or part it. Not sure that I'm up for a 3 year project. Not sure I could source all the metal either. Guess I could go fiberglass and do a lightweight. I paid 10k for the car. Think I might just cut my losses.

What would you guys do?

Ouch, if the mechanicals and interior are VG I might be tempted to fix it, otherwise I don't think so.

The cover up really compounded the crime. All that "metallic bondo" filler needs to be removed, IMO. That's a ton of work. I think that chassis would need to be dipped, or seriously blasted. It doesn't seem realistically possible to get all that cover up work removed by hand.

i've got no bright ideas but I sure love that early 70's with the white and black

I guess thats the ultimate 10 footer

What does the PO say out of curiosity?

Yep - I'd give the PO 15 days to refund my money and then be seeking out an attorney.....

I'll try and save it, mines was in worst condition than that.... I don't know what you and the last po transaction was, but if you can't get your money back, you should try and save it...just my 2 cents..

Your assuming the PO slathered bondo over all the rust to hide it and it wasn't the PO's PO, or the 4th PO. I think it's a pretty solid car over-all and absolutely should be brought back. It's a good project for you to learn welding, metal work, and bodywork on. You should tackle ONE piece at a time. Take a fender off, strip it or have it (do both) dipped, replace the buckets, fix any rust, and make them as-new. Move on to the doors, then to rockers, etc. It will take more time than money and in the end you will KNOW what you have. Trust me, unless you buy a new car there is ALWAYS something some idiot did to it that comes out later... My vote is Restore it!

You know I would be glad to help you out when possible, your only 40 minutes away.
:D

I'm with Gary on this one!!!

Unless you can't live without driving it for a pretty good while I would restore it. And I bet you can live just fine while working on it and learning more than most of us will know about our cars.

Keep 'er.

gary is far more skilled than I

I know nothing that you can't learn and you will have the benefit of not having to stumble over all the mistakes I have made on the way if you let me (and others) help you...

I would save it

I'D VOTE SAVE IT OR SELL IT AS A WHOLE TO SOME ONE WHO CAN SAVE IT AND TRY TO CUT YOUR LOSS TO A MINIMUM , I'M JUST A SOFTY AGAINST PARTING AND CHOPPING UP A CAR THAT DID NOTHING WRONG ACCEPT HAVE MANY PO THAT NEGLECTED IT, AND THE WORST PART THE PO THAT DID THE BODY WORK MAY HAVE THOUGHT THEY WERE DOING THE CORRECT THING IN "FIXING" IT , ALSO COULD HAVE BEEN A SHADY BODY SHOP THAT DID A COVER UP "RUST " REPAIR ON AN UNSUSPECTING PREVIOUS OWNER WITH A DEEP BUT DUMB WALLET ?? SmileWavy


sorry cap lock was stuck ...

I am a big fan on saving these cars! However some times you just can't realistically piece together what will always be in the back of your mind as a bad decision.

The only thing you need to worry about is the TUB as everything else is bolt on and with enough patience available.

Cosmetically it looks great. ie lights, indicators, grills etc etc. These are the pain in the backside pieces that will annoy you if you don't have them.

Also if it is a sunroof model check the rear parcel shelf. sunroof issues are a big deal with a tub.

Included are two pics of my 71 t that after all the evidence was presented I sadly wrecked. 10k down the toilet ( not a good experience)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254787862.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1254787897.jpg

First thing first... Can you get your money back?

Assuming you can't... Then you have to decide what's the most cost effective way to fix this.
Don't let your heart rule. Make a logical decision...
From your photos and description it sounds like your best option would be to replace the entire body.
There is just so much work to do on your car... And you don't sounds enthusiastic about doing it...

(Assuming the engine and gearbox are good)

If I was you: I would find the best 71 "ish" body only I could find and go from there.
A lot less work this way and if you do the sums and buy the right body a lot more economical.
You also have to consider the time it would take to repair your car.
Not to mention alignment issues and availability of good replacement panels.

Take your time. The wrecking yards of California would be a good place to start. (rust free bodies a plenty)
Also try GK Restorations, Tallahassee, Florida www.gkrestorations.com

This may sound like an expensive option but do your sums.
Start a parts list and get some prices. Do you have a MIG welder? Do you have time to learn how to use one?
Do you have the covered area for such a project ~ You'd need a minimum of a two car garage and even then you'll soon run out of room.

By the way, It is now becoming cost effective for people who live over seas to buy good rot
free body's or complete cars from the US.

I've seen some major restoration thread here and hats off to the guys for doing these but
I wonder how much time and money was spent on some of these cars.

Your time is valuable. Often people will tell you your time is free.
Your time is anything but free. What about your family? Don't let this project rule your life.

Be smart and use the resources you have at your disposal.

Good luck and I hope it works out for the best.

If you have experts offering help then the answer is obvious. I wouldn't think of parting it now.

Mine took me about three years to fix the body from a similar point. Full strip,sand blast, and rotisserie rebuild.

Just a point of reference.

How does it drive? $10k is on the low end for one of these cars so even if it needs work you are not doing all that badly. Why bother with any of that rust? Just drive the car for as long as it stays together. Once you have used it for years then either fix it or part it.

may be a little late on the drive as is option looks like he already attacked with th D/A sander ??

i agree though if is not structure though i would look into the rear deck and other primary part of the car that keep the engine and the driver moving forward as one unit < don't forget the front suspension mounts they are important too , door corners and rockers are truly over rated ... although 10k it was a nice 10 footer and photographed very well ...:cool:

Front pan has already been addressed AFAIK, it's all just body panels and sheet metal.

definitely a save vote from me , light weight is an option , but either way enjoy it , thats what it was built to be ... enjoyed

No way I would part that car. Take your time and fix it at your own speed. It is really rewarding also. You will know the car inside and out and be much happier.

Good luck.

I have to say I’m with the “think carefully before you restore” crowd.

I agree with the sentiment that pretty much anything you need to do with the car (outside of engine machine shop work) is well within your ability to learn it and do it. I just recently completed a suspension pan replacement and previously painted my 944 project to what I truly feel is a very high standard. I possess no great skills and experience. It just took patience and time... a LOT of time. And there is the rub, and what makes this different for everyone. I myself have long ago concluded I should have spent more money on a 911 up front and be doing less work now. Like most of you I have a demanding job which I spend too many hours at and a young family. Almost all of my work on the cars is done between 5:00 and 6:00 am on weekdays (some weekdays). I literally have no time otherwise. As such, things that others might bang out in a weekend take me months. The suspension pan repair took at least two months for instance. My 944 project (a ground up restoration) was started in 2004 and although looking really good, is still a fair piece from being done (and that was a very solid car to begin with - no rust or body damage etc).

I bought the 911 so I could actually drive ;) a Porsche before I retire and even then, I elected to go with one that needed a “bit” of work…

So, the questions to ask yourself (IMO) are:

1) How happy am I to engage in a long duration project where I will not be driving the car?

2) What was I really looking for when I bought this car? A hobby car or a car to drive?

3) How much time can I really spend on a project? If it is a few hours a week, then I would say this project will take a very long time.

4) How does my ability to spend compare with a preliminary budget of what this will cost to do (you can find prices for sheet metal from various vendors, look at decent MIG machines etc. Also consider if you will do the paint yourself or not. Even doing it yourself is expensive (high-end paint supplies, good spray guns, good breathing protection – e.g. remote fresh air supply system etc. – it adds up).

I would not really want to drive it without knowing the true condition of the structural sheet metal. The cover up seems to have been well done, so it is hard to know how safe the car really is. For example, if the torsion tube is seriously corroded, then this can fail, which depending how fast you are travelling could have serious consequences.

Only after doing a rational analysis of your situation, can a logical decision be made.

Whoever it was that did this to the car… I have to wonder, what really went through their mind? Did they actually think they were doing a good repair, or were they intentionally doing a cover-up job? I completely agree that adding all that muck onto the body hugely complicates any attempt a proper repair.

Well said amjf088 and on point. I know Sean and know he bought this car to drive and fix/restore/modify as time went on. He now sees that there is a lot more work to do than he originally thought and i'm sure feels a bit overwhelmed with it. He races with me (SC's in the same class) so he gets a good "Porsche" fix between that an DE's. Now he just has to decide IF he wants to invest the time in the car. I have no doubt that the car should be restored, but that's me. He has a job, young family, and most likely a lot of demands for his time. If he wants out i'm sure there are many that would love this car to bring back. It's all aesthetics really, the pan is done, floor is solid, suspension good, engine/trans good.

Thanks for all the replies, I've decided to keep the baby.


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Floor pans are not as bad as they look. Mostly surface rust.

Early cars are going up in value the closer to original they are, I say fix it right or dont fix it at all. You will have a prize if you do fix it.

VINTAGE RALLY material! Drive the snot out of it in the winter. Pile on the bondo! Don't spend money on the body but do on mechanical bits. That way you'll have good mechanicals to put on that desert rescue tub you'll find some day.

Dan

Sounds like my $500 '66. 1/2" of bondo all the way down the rockers (there was no metal behind it) Passenger fender was welded onto the frame to hide the hole in the strut tower, that they filled in with bondo, and then went crazy with the undercoat... Car looked pretty good.... till I started stripping it :)