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Leather window pulls on a 911?

I'm planning on starting the lightweight/rally treatment on my '68 hopefully very very soon! I'd love some input on this idea!

I know that many factory prepared sports purpose 356's and maybe some SWB R's-T/R's came with these leather window raising mechanisms. Does anyone here have something like this on their car? how did you make it? Any photo's of factory prepped cars with it? do I have to remove my tracking to install a leather pull?






Thanks again everyone, you're GREAT!

TB

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1968 Light Ivory 912
1974 BMW 2002

Last edited by tb912; 10-15-2009 at 12:56 AM..
Old 10-15-2009, 12:46 AM
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Here's a couple pics of the straps on 356's. I like the full door panel kind like these rather than the full race/molded door version above..


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1968 Light Ivory 912
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:54 AM
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I'll be watching this one.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:12 AM
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Here's mine. Sorry for the not so clear pic. It is a flat door panel and uses a metal top identical to the stock unit, just not vinyl covered. Strap is affixed to bottom of window and latches through a small hook on the door panel top. Window winder mechanism is removed. I will look to see if I have a better photo.
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69E Coupe 2.2S LtWt
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Last edited by t6dpilot; 10-15-2009 at 07:31 AM..
Old 10-15-2009, 07:29 AM
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leather pulls

I have this arrangement on my 79. I use the RS door panels and removed all the glass and power windows. WIndows were replaced with lexan for weight savings and to maintain a waterproof environment when towing on an open trailer. the strap comes up through the window channel and I have a snap closure on the door panel which I snap the leather strap onto it. functional and looks correct. No photos available as I keep my car offsite.
WIlly
Old 10-15-2009, 07:54 AM
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Watching as well... been thinking of doing something like this on my planned Speedster project, but keep going back and forth between this and zip-in windows...
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6dpilot View Post
...I will look to see if I have a better photo.
[/img]
YES, PLEASE
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Old 10-16-2009, 02:42 AM
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Ok. so here is one of my ideas I did a rough drawing of (I wasn't looking at any references so don't scold me on my accuracy ) I'm thinking of keeping the original handle/armrest though it wouldn't be totally original. I figure it's worth it's weight in practicality and usefulness and I like having an arm rest.

I also had the idea of backdating my panels to '67 style pockets because I like the look of the pockets as apposed to COMPLETELY naked panels, and If I used vinyl, the wouldn't weigh hardly anything anyway.

correct basket weave will be the backing. The arm rests, pockets and top door trim would be smooth vinyl.

I'm thinking leather door pulls and window pulls as well as leather door stops. Let me know what you guys think! too much? I just like sport purpose, but with practical and vintage looking features. I dunno.

THANKS!
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:14 AM
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Some great ideas but it would be best if you could get to the bottom of the window to help get it open once you release the leather straps.

Releasing the leather straps alone normally won't do it. The window will just stays were it is.

I had a Fiat 500 with similar leather straps. To open the windows I had to push the window down just a bit by sliding my hand downwards against the glass. After a bit of a struggle I could then get my hand over the top and get it the rest of the way down. It was a real PITA...

I tried making small alloy handles that were glued over the top of the glass but they made the window wedge in even more and looked like crap.
In the end I cut neat holes on the trims so I could grab the bottom of the window to get it down.

Looking at some of the photos above I don't know how the drivers of the cars get the widows down without a struggle.

I hope someone else chimes in with a better solution.
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:32 AM
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I like the overall concept, as I have considered the same. A few thoughts:

1) I am not sure sure if you need the leather pull strap since you are retaining the arm rest, which also acts as a pull mechanism to close the door.

2) I am concerned about he leather window strap getting in the way of the arm rest. The length of the strap in your drawing does not really accurately reflect the true length of the strap when the window is pulled all the way up.

3) Also, are you planning on retaining the original glass? My understanding is that the leather strap will stretch over time with the lightweight R glass, so I am sure it will stretch even more with normal glass.

Question for all: How does the strap design affect the stability of the window? In other words, does this design increase window rattle?
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:35 AM
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1. I actually gave that point some thought AFTER I scanned in the drawing. Good point indeed. I suppose I just like the idea of the RS style pull. it will probably be scrapped.

2. I also thought about this a bit, if I lined up the leather strap with the gap between the armrest and the panel, I think the armrest could actually HELP keep the strap in place and not flapping around.

3. Never considered that point, I guess that could potentially be an issue, but I'm not too concerned because if the strap DOES stretch to the point where it becomes unusable, I'll simply take off the panel and replace it. So I think for now, glass windows.

I was thinking about the rattling problem as well, any first hand experiences??
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
Some great ideas but it would be best if you could get to the bottom of the window to help get it open once you release the leather straps.

Releasing the leather straps alone normally won't do it. The window will just stays were it is.

I had a Fiat 500 with similar leather straps. To open the windows I had to push the window down just a bit by sliding my hand downwards against the glass. After a bit of a struggle I could then get my hand over the top and get it the rest of the way down. It was a real PITA...

I tried making small alloy handles that were glued over the top of the glass but they made the window wedge in even more and looked like crap.
In the end I cut neat holes on the trims so I could grab the bottom of the window to get it down.

Looking at some of the photos above I don't know how the drivers of the cars get the widows down without a struggle.

I hope someone else chimes in with a better solution.

I'm thinking I will use the thinnest reasonable leather so that it can slide freely and easily, I figure if I use a thin strap, the weight of the glass should be enough to drop down. But the neat hole in the panel could be a cool idea..
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:51 AM
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Have a look at this tread, pictures of my setup in there.

Plastic/lexan etc window question
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Last edited by Patrice911; 10-17-2009 at 06:16 AM..
Old 10-17-2009, 06:13 AM
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Here is a better pic of my setup.


The system works well and looks good to boot. The only issues that I have are:
  1. Window does not stay completely up because of slack in pull needed to unhook the strap. You need a piece like a round socket or wood dowel to slide under the strap to keep the window completely closed.
  2. Because of above, the window creeps down 1/2" taking up the slack in the pull. You need to pull window up some to have enough slack in strap to remove it from the hook.
  3. When the window is full down and hooked, it can be hard to get your finger under the strap to get the window up.

I do not experience window rattling and even if I did, I would not be able to really hear it. Reference my first picture.
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t6dpilot View Post
Here is a better pic of my setup.


The system works well and looks good to boot. The only issues that I have are:
  1. Window does not stay completely up because of slack in pull needed to unhook the strap. You need a piece like a round socket or wood dowel to slide under the strap to keep the window completely closed.
  2. Because of above, the window creeps down 1/2" taking up the slack in the pull. You need to pull window up some to have enough slack in strap to remove it from the hook.
  3. When the window is full down and hooked, it can be hard to get your finger under the strap to get the window up.

I do not experience window rattling and even if I did, I would not be able to really hear it. Reference my first picture.
I was thinking of using a series of snaps on the strap to lower the window to different heights. I am thinking maybe the snaps would help eliminate your sag problem.

The other thought I have been mulling over is usign a strap of leather that is reinforced, maybe with nylon inside, - or just folded over and stitched like the door pulls from APPBIZ. Or, just use a nylon window strap instead...
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Last edited by SCWDP911; 10-17-2009 at 07:31 PM..
Old 10-17-2009, 07:26 PM
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here's a little vid on how the units in my rally car work:

YouTube - Lexan windows/door straps for Porsche 911ST
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Cheers, Ryan
1969 911E (historic racer)
911ST replica (tarmac rally)
Old 10-17-2009, 08:59 PM
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That's brilliant Ryan. That is similar to what I had in mind with the snaps - nice to see it actually works well. The handle idea on the window is a great idea, especially for what you mentioned as it's secondary function - great thinking there.

Is there anything you would do differently if you had to start over?
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:10 AM
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I guess switching to lexan windows would be pretty necessary with this set up. does anyone have price point on lexan drive/passenger windows? Maybe a source..
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:20 PM
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That's brilliant Ryan. That is similar to what I had in mind with the snaps - nice to see it actually works well. The handle idea on the window is a great idea, especially for what you mentioned as it's secondary function - great thinking there.

Is there anything you would do differently if you had to start over?
nope - i've had these in use for over a year now and they're great.
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1969 911E (historic racer)
911ST replica (tarmac rally)
Old 10-18-2009, 01:38 PM
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I guess switching to lexan windows would be pretty necessary with this set up. does anyone have price point on lexan drive/passenger windows? Maybe a source..
we just bought a lexan sheet, pulled all of the glass except the windscreen, traced and then cut them out with a jigsaw.

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911ST replica (tarmac rally)
Old 10-18-2009, 01:39 PM
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