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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG View Post
LOL ^^^^ Meth Gas, that would be funny, we would need to show our i.d.'s to buy that stuff

Found it, only 3 in Cali:

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
Oh, ethanol free gas. That's going to be a lot harder in California.

I looked at those 3 places in your link. Other than the one at Laguna Seca raceway (selling race gas, I'm sure), I'd be very, very skeptical.

I highly doubt there is some corner '76 station pumping ethanol free gas anywhere in California, as suggested by that link.
Old 04-07-2011, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
Oh, ethanol free gas. That's going to be a lot harder in California.

I looked at those 3 places in your link. Other than the one at Laguna Seca raceway (selling race gas, I'm sure), I'd be very, very skeptical.

I highly doubt there is some corner '76 station pumping ethanol free gas anywhere in California, as suggested by that link.
Well, I will report back after the recon and hopefully a fill up
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:37 PM
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Excellente.

With all the old Porsches (and other old collectibles) in your area, I'd imagine that would become a very popular station, if the improbable turns out to be true.
Old 04-07-2011, 02:39 PM
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Recon Complete but Inconclusive:

Checked every pump and could not find "E10" label or reference to Ethanol. Checked with cashier, he did not know but gave me the Office Number to confirm in the A.M.

Over,
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:40 PM
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Spoke to the Dispatch Department of Union 76 800-339-8755.

Gentleman explained in California it is all E10. He has no idea where to get E-Free Gas in Cali.

Went to previous E-Free Site and Removed those stations.

So Sad :-(.

But happy I found the BG 44K

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Old 04-08-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG View Post
Recon Complete but Inconclusive:

Checked every pump and could not find "E10" label or reference to Ethanol. Checked with cashier, he did not know but gave me the Office Number to confirm in the A.M.

Over,
You will not find a E10 label on any pump in Calif. No labels are required thanks to AB1650 which was passed in 1998 and became effective on Jan. 1, 1999. All motor vehicle gasoline sold in Calif. contains E10. Ethanol free fuel may be purchased at any aviation fuel facility, race track (?) & maybe some boating refueling facilities.
Old 04-08-2011, 11:38 AM
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Yep it is sad... Duke nailed this one too.

Btw- Did you notice the funny looks from the gas station attendants when you asked them about E10? I sure got funny looks and goofy statements when I asked every single gas station I stopped at on a recent trip up to Nor-cal and back. The guy at the Chevron in Fresno was the funniest "I don't know, but Chevron has techron, its the very best gas you can buy, I doubt it has any other additives, it's pure gas, the best" oh, I feel so much better now...

Don't some of the pumps at our CA-race tracks have non-E10 gas that comes in octane lower then 100. Not 100% positive though. I'll have to check at Willow or T-hill next time I'm out there...
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Old 04-08-2011, 11:57 AM
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I did see some Mobil Stations stating ethanol in their Gas, Corner of Burbank ad Reseda Blvd in Tarzana Califorina.

Yes, indeed funny, like I'm the crazy one.

Just got off the phone with an even funnier owner of a Union 76, one of those listed as "E-Free" and at first he was proud to explain his gas was 100% Octane (???), then I asked very slowly DOES IT CON - TAIN ETHA - NOL?. He said over course they all do. But he did say Union 76 does not add the MTB or what ever he said. Is this true?

I do believe even at race tracks are E10, gosh look at the recent races at Indy, heavily promoting E15.

Question, can you purchase the Avaiation or Boating Fuel for Automotve use? I am going to the Harbor and/or local Private Airport to find out.
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Last edited by DRACO A5OG; 04-08-2011 at 12:12 PM..
Old 04-08-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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Question, can you purchase the Avaiation or Boating Fuel for Automotve use? I am going to the Harbor and/or local Private Airport to find out.
There was a thread on this a while ago. I think you'll find it if you search "100LL"

Sorry your mission ended unsuccessfully.

But I'm even more disappointed to now learn that not everything posted on the interwebs is true!
Old 04-08-2011, 12:59 PM
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Indeed, That is why I wanted to speak to the actual sources to verify. I do not think the poster were lying, just maybe too excited and really did not take care to ask thoroughly like I did. Learned that from Law School, listen to everyword

100LL, got will see.
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:05 PM
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100LL $5.50 as of 4/8/2011

Link for 100LL in your area: 100LL - Aviation Fuel Prices

OK, spoke to Southbay Aviation Services in Torrance.

They will sell to the public with a DOT approved, up to 5 Gallon Metal Gas Container/s. The 100LL fuel dispensor will not fit into the fill end of vehicles.

Jim
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Old 04-08-2011, 04:37 PM
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Don't use 100LL in your street car! It will destroy your Cat and O2 sensor. It will also leave nasty lead deposits in your combustion chamber (unless driven at full throttle and high RPM constantly). The LL stand for low lead. Don't let the name fool you, it has plenty of lead.

-Andy
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:14 PM
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I knew it was too good to be true, Oh well.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:20 PM
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Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean to use 100LL. There was a thread here somewhere, I think Tim Hancock participated in it, talking about aviation fuel.

In the thread, as I recall, there was some discussion of unleaded aviation fuel, that has no ethanol. I believe the term 100LL was used in the thread, though - that's why I thought to use that as a search term.

"100LL" is a "low lead" fuel, but I think "low" is a relative term (it's low relative to other aviation fuels). I don't think it takes much lead to be harmful to cats and o2 sensors.

For older, non cat/02 cars, 100LL may be ok. Cars from the early 70s and earlier used to run on full leaded for years. More research would be needed, to figure out exactly how much lead 100LL has.
Old 04-08-2011, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
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I knew it was too good to be true, Oh well.
As goes with anything "good" in Calif.

Now, I'm going to strap on my .44 Special Bulldog revolver, drive my dark tinted-window '79SC (with cat/air pump removed) to the local Marathon station and fill it up with Ethanol-free gas!

Old 04-09-2011, 06:01 AM
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The thick and thin on this is that all aviation grade fuels have a completely different formulation basis that is not truly compatible with street driven vehicles. Air plane engines cruise at relatively low RPMs and under different atmospheric/volumetric demand parameters than their torque loving ground hugging counter parts. As in cars, trucks, motorcycles etc.

On the other hand, it may appear that our best bet would be to purchase fuel from marine sources for during times of long term storage due to the phase separation of alcohol based fuels. My initial research is pointing towards marine fuel as a possible source. If you find a local marina you can fuel up there of course remember to float up on the port side of the dock! But seriously, some have land side pumps for trailered boats and such and you can just roll up the pump and fill.

It also appears most fuel additives have alcohol as a base and will only complicate the problems when using and storing with E-10 and if the legislative plutocracy has their way with E-15 as they are now trying to implement, this will have all of us treading water in a clown suit ! - " . . . so now get into the fetal position and when the green light goes on, roll quickly out of the plane . . ."
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:32 AM
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So what is wrong with using 100LL in cars without cats & oxygen sensors ?

I'm asumming '100' stands for 100 octane ?

And lead will not hurt a car that was designed to use it ... yes ?

(unleaded gas was not introduced til 1975) :

EPA Takes Final Step in Phaseout of Leaded Gasoline
[EPA press release - January 29, 1996]

"In 1975, passenger cars and light trucks were manufactured with a more elaborate emission control system which included a catalytic converter that required lead-free fuel."
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There is more to the story than whether it has lead or not or Ethanol or not. Not all refined petro uses the same formula, additives, etc.
E10 wont hurt your car. Its been used in most states for well over 10 years. The guru's swear by Chevron 92/93 which has had Ethanol in it for as long as I can remember in pretty much every state whether mandated or not. There are some who will roll up to get Marine gas (like the Marathon Pic), but the same issue exists. There is alot more to fuel formulation than whether its 10% ethanol or not. How long has that fuel beet sitting in those tanks?
There are additive packages, petro base stocks, etc that all get factored into the equation.
If you drive your car on the weekends more than about 3k miles a year, use alittle Stabil over the winter, NONE of us will have an issue with the current E10. For 40 years people have been using Drygas, STP, Techron.. all of which use a Ethanol base. No need to be paranoid on this one. Follow Steve W. advice and call it a day... go drive!

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Originally Posted by RatBox View Post
So what is wrong with using 100LL in cars without cats & oxygen sensors ?

I'm asumming '100' stands for 100 octane ?

And lead will not hurt a car that was designed to use it ... yes ?

(unleaded gas was not introduced til 1975) :

EPA Takes Final Step in Phaseout of Leaded Gasoline
[EPA press release - January 29, 1996]

"In 1975, passenger cars and light trucks were manufactured with a more elaborate emission control system which included a catalytic converter that required lead-free fuel."
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:37 PM
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There are some who will roll up to get Marine gas (like the Marathon Pic), but the same issue exists. There is alot more to fuel formulation than whether its 10% ethanol or not. How long has that fuel beet sitting in those tanks?
Wow...so now NON-ETHANOL gas is bad for us?!? Fork it...I'm going to drain everything, park my car and just polish it from now on.

The pic above is from one of the very few stations locally where you can purchase ethanol-free gas. There is a line out the door to get to that pump, especially on weekend nights when the boaters and boy-racers line up. On Sunday, it's the hot-rodders & Harley folks who are hogging the pump. I try to go mid-week when the line isn't an issue.
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Calm down. LOL

Non-Ethanol Auto fuel is GREAT! It is no longer manufactured. Is it? I havent seen it in the 5 states ive been in for the last 10 years. If it is great. My bad. When we start using Marine fuel and Avation fuel... there are other things to consider. Arent there?

Avation fuel.. Not so much unless you can know that it is of a similar formulation. Just because it will burn in your engine doesnt make it good for your engine. Marine gas? Well it depends. If the guy sells enough to fill up his big underground tank every 3 years... probably better off with Regular E10 from your local Chevron tank. or would you rather use Petro pumped into his tank from 3 years ago? Lots of things to consider. If you dont know... probably better off with E10.

Your money... do what you like...

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Wow...so now NON-ETHANOL gas is bad for us?!? Fork it...I'm going to drain everything, park my car and just polish it from now on.

The pic above is from one of the very few stations locally where you can purchase ethanol-free gas. There is a line out the door to get to that pump, especially on weekend nights when the boaters and boy-racers line up. On Sunday, it's the hot-rodders & Harley folks who are hogging the pump. I try to go mid-week when the line isn't an issue.
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