new purchase?

[apapage]

hi all.

A coworker has a 911 sc that he wants to sell for a fairly reasonable price. I've already done lots of research (thanks pelican), just want to confirm some of the issues. By the way, I've never owned a porsche before. Had many cars, all makes. My favorite was an mk2 gti. Also, have lots of mechanical experience mostly out of necessity (thanks GM). So here is the list:

1. difficult shifting into first. Does not crash between gears. Seller said this was typical of 911 cars. Read lots of posts and I'm concluding that this is not normal. Yes?

2. has a/c, but does not work. seller says, doesn't work well anyway, he would do/has done without. I like driving in the summer without sweating. Worth repairing?

3. will not pass inspection. i live in nyc and this is an issue. i believe it is because the cat conv has been removed. has stainless exhaust (loud). air pump removed too. Although I think it is exempt from the sniffer test, I think it still has to pass visual.

4. water leak into interior. i think it is from the sunroff, but owner says it looks like it is coming in from the doors. any change that water is working its way down headliner, down a pillar, etc.?

5. faded paint, a couple of dents, no rust.

6. drivers seat torn, rest of interior ok.

7. no service records, odometer is broken, it reads 115k.

I didn't check compression yet, but the car runs strong.

I really wasn't looking to buy a 911 originally, because I always thought they were too pricey especially when it comes to maintenance. After some research, the prices don't seem that bad.

I would consider this car a 4 or a 5, runs well, but needs lots of attention. How much is it worth? I've seen project cars in the $4-5k range and ones that have had recent rebuilds of the engine and/or transmission in the $10-12k range. Assuming I can even overcome the emissions issues (replace air pump, cat conv, etc.), I would think I should treat this more of a project car and offer $5k. Any thoughts?

[rs6er]

1. Don't know what you mean by "doesn't crash through gears."
2. Agree. Not worth repairing. Remove it all for a cleaner, more accessible engine compartment and a faster, cooler running car.
3. If you live in NY and the car is over 25 years old, you don't have to pass emissions inspection.
4. Leak may be from base side of windshield. Common.
5. Can be fixed.
6 Ditto
What year is the car?

[tony9704]

115,000 mi. +? PPI!!!!!!!

[Zeke]

The shifting could be bushings, easy fix. The A/C will cost you 2K to do it up right. Water in interior can be serious, depends on how long this has been going on. A seat kit is a DIY item for many and used seats aren't too much money.

And now the bad part: no records, run away. And no mileage history? Run faster.

[Rich76_911s]

1. Does it have trouble Down shifting into first? If so it could be as Milt suggested, or it could be a worn synchro in the gear box.

2. A/C is expensive to fix, and is REALLY expensive to fix and get to a point it is usefull. According to testamony I don't have first hand experience with it.

4 and 5. I'd be worried about any water inside of anything, particularly on the east coast where things only get dry in time to get wet again.

My guess is that you have a leaky windshield seal and you can expect rust in the lower corners of the windshield if this is the case. I couldn't figure out where I was getting water into an old car of mine, it was the windshield seal and I did have a big honk'n hole in the lower corner on both sides.

Do you know where to check for rust? My bet just from your description is that this car has rust somewhere. East coast cars excel at getting and hiding rust. I have a thread that I wrote on most places to check for rust. I'll try and find it and post a link.

Personally I think it depends on what you are looking for. If you want a project, then sure go for it. If on the other hand you want a car to enjoy I think a 12 to 15K good condition car is the better way to go. I've shopped the bottom of the barrell 911 cart, and found that most times you get what you pay for.

What year is the car? If it is an '81 or newer do a carfax on it.

Also you sound like a fairly educated buyer. I'd still suggest a PPI.

[GaryR]

Tony and Rich said it.. PPI. About an 80% chance it has broken lower head stud(s). Figure $5-10K for a good top end job DOS. A/C will be about $3K to retrofit modern components, lines, etc. Water leak? Look at the floors, pedal box, and rear seat pockets (where yur arse goes). Also check for bubbling paint at the base of the A-pillar. No records, no real odometer.. sure doesn't sound like a pleasant 1st Porsche experience to me! My guess is by the time you price out all the fixes he will have to pay YOU to take it!

[ramonesfreak]

I agree with the leaky front window seal. I have the same problem and thus avoid rain and am very careful when i wash the car. in fact i try to ever avoid washing the car with water except once or twice per year and when i do, i make sure its totally dry before i go to sleep

look under the carpets very carefully....if you can, peel up some of the black floor coating and see if rust is present underneath.....carefully pull up some of the window seal around the lower corners to see if rust is present...if owner lets you :0

my seat is torn too...hard to avoid with that many miles. easy fix if you have the money

No records dont bother me so much. You and a PPI guy should be able to learn what you need to know

Inspect very carefully for rust....with a flashlight....under all carpets, under wheel wells, in trunk under carpets, inside smugglers box, near battery etc...

I have dents too...hard to avoid if the car was driven alot

Odometer can be fixed with $150. How long ago did it break is the question.....does the car actually have 250K miles? if not confident, i would not consider this car...carfax may shed light on this

Headstuds are a big issue. Im afraid to find out if mine are broken.... :-( I havent looked yet cause im scared and it will be about a decade before i can afford to fix them

[apapage]

thanks for the quick response.

I didn't consider the windshield seal for the leak. Makes sense. The PO had it for a little over a year ungaraged, so the leak occurred for at least this time. The owner before that garaged the car (I can't confirm). I'll look closely for rust.

I am looking for a project/driver. I eventually wanted to do some engine work, but much later.

I'll check car fax and compression test. If its OK, then I'll have someone check the head studs and the trans.

thanks again.

[GaryR]

CarFax doesn't do pre-81(?) cars AFAIK. A leakdown is much more important than compression but both should be done. As soon as the valve covers come off the studs can be checked. If broken don't waste your time with any tests...

[jrobb911]

I fixed my spedo for $23 for a new gear that was busted inside. If speed indicator is ok and just the mileage and trip doesn't turn no big deal.

[Buckterrier]

I can't offer to much tech knowledge but I can offer the use of my catalytic converter if you choose to purchase the car. Mine is off and passed emmisions here in Ct. in 08'

[apapage]

I know the leak down test gives more info, but I only have the tools for a compression test so that goes first. It is an 81, so I should be able to get some info on the mileage.

I didn't realize that there was an 80% chance of broken studs.

Thanks for the Cat offer, but I'm still on the ropes about the car. I was really looking for a driver that I could restore over time. I had cars that were money pits before and I don't want a repeat. I've been looking for some time. Problem is that everyone prices there project car as if in a 3-4 condition. I'll let you all know what I decide.

Thanks again.

[Rich76_911s]

Checking for broken headstuds is easy if you can do compression and leakdown tests. The only problem is that the current owner will have to let you pull the valve covers off. If you decide to go this route, buy a set of valve cover gaskets and hardware from pelican ($35), because you have to replace the gaskets once you remove the valve covers. To check for broken headstuds they will either be in the valve cover, or else check each of them individually to see if they are loose or broken. Sometimes they are in the right place but are broken.

When I had water coming into my car from the windshield gasket it would drip down from below the ignition key. A lot of water came into the car, and my pedal box was shot as was all the linkage in the pedal assembly. Pull the carpet up and check for that.

Here is a link to my rust spots post. I also have some information in there about checking for accident damage. Yup had that too on the first car I bought.
1972 Rust

The car could be right up your alley, as a driver / project. Just check the rust issue, accident damage, and headstuds. In my humble opinion those are the 3 things that can really make or break a driving project car. It's best to know what you are getting into before signing on that dotted line. $300 to have a professional go over the car is a SOLID investment in my humble opinion. I didn't do that on the cars I bought and it costed me a lot more than the PPI would have been.

Rich

[apapage]

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to update this post. I hesitated to purchase because of the economy. The seller did not have any luck selling it anyway. I found out recently that one of the connecting rods broke, which makes me glad I didn't pull the trigger. Given the condition of the rest of the car, it seems like at best this is parts car.

[kidrock]

just read the thread for the first time...you lucked out. From the details you gave about the car, I would have told you to not walk away...RUN. Probably worth $4K-$5K, if you are a master mechanic and were doing a full rotisserie on it. Otherwise, it would've just sat in your driveway marking it's territory and draining your wallet.

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by apapage

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to update this post. I hesitated to purchase because of the economy. The seller did not have any luck selling it anyway. I found out recently that one of the connecting rods broke, which makes me glad I didn't pull the trigger. Given the condition of the rest of the car, it seems like at best this is parts car.

Likely it is something other than the connecting rods - I have never seen one of these break on a 3.0L engine. Still, it sounded like a $6K-$8K car as you described, on a good day...

-Wayne