Have replaced about everything and STILL no juice to starter

[juicersr]

A couple of months ago the starter on the my turbo gave out during turbopalooza weekend. As was still able to roll start the car with ignition at 'on' postion, but was not able to bypass the solenoid with screwdriver, so assumed it was starter. Well, wanted to replace the starter with new, lighter high torque starter anyhow, so, one new high torque starter, one new ignition switch, one solenoid by-pass switch, and all new relays and fuses later, i am still not getting power to starter.

I have looked through numerous threads on this, one of which Troubleshooting no start lead me to try and 'jump' the car off the disconnected ignition switch plug. While i can get the car to 'power up' this way(fuel pump, gauges come on) cannot get the starter to fire.

Anyone here ever have an issue with the wiring between the ignition switch and starter, which seems to be where the problem is here. Is there something i am overlooking in all this??

At this point, have decided to install a push-button starter, and just bypass all the ignition switch BS altogether

Before I do this, and just to make sure i am not doing something dumb, can some clarify what each of the wires to the starter (pictured here) does?

I am running a TEC GT Efi system, and the two red wires together go to the engine bay fuse box. There is the single red wire (from which the wire with the spade connector goes) that wasnt hooked up to the original starter. (the large black wire in the background is hooked up to main terminal on the starter.

Also, i have looked at numerous threads, and am not sure which wires i need to 'splice' in to and run to the pushbutton starter switch


Any help at all on this from anybody would be greatly appreciated!


BTW, here is another thread which i have perused, but has not helped:
Starter problem...

Here is the thread i am using to install the pushbutton starter, but still not clear as to which wires i need to 'splice' into Push-To-Start Button

[crustychief]

One of the big red wires should have power at all times and the yellow should have power only when the key is in the start position. I am not a big fan of ignoring problems by working around them, eventually you will end up with a huge mess IMHO. I would take a look at the bentley and get the voltmeter or test-light out and start troubleshooting. Maybe another NC Pelican can assist?

[crustychief]

Here are schematics.

[psalt]

Anyone here ever have an issue with the wiring between the ignition switch and starter, which seems to be where the problem is here. Is there something i am overlooking in all this??

Yes, this is a common problem. Step 1 is to hook up a voltmeter to the yellow wire at the starter and see what you get when you turn the key to start. Sometimes you can get full voltage at the starter, but not enough current to fully throw the solenoid. The Yellow wire, terminal 50 at the switch and at the starter, has a long and difficult route. It goes from the switch, through a bulkhead plug, to the 14 pin engine compartment harness, and on to the starter. Disconnect the plugs and clean and separate the pins with a razor blade. If you have A/C, there is also a really annoying, double plug coupler buried in the heater box, that taps the yellow wire to the A/C relay in the smugglers box. When this relay burns out strange things can happen to your starter. The yellow wire is also tapped into the heater ventilation switch. You need to trace and unplug and clean all of the connections to do it correctly. Is the solenoid clicking, or does nothing happen ?

The idea of a remote starter switch is to bypss all of the yellow wires. You simply fit an extra lug to the yellow wire terminal on the starter and connect the other side of the switch to the main battery cable on the starter. A fuse on this connection near the starter is a good idea. I mount the remote button in the engine compartment , keeping the wires to the starter as short as possible. When the key fails, just make sure it is out of gear when you hit the remote.

Unfortunately there are other possibilites. The grounds can be bad, from the battery terminal to the chassis and from the chassis to the gearbox. Use a jumper cable from the battery to the gearbox to test. Remove and clean them, then do a voltage drop test from the terminal to the clamp, terminal to the body post, body post to starter. The main positive cable can also corrode internally and you can also test this with a jumper cable directly from the battery, but you must be very careful on this test.

[juicersr]

Thanks Paul, crusty. I'm gonna attack this problem with a vengeance tomorrow and trace out where the connection is shot. Still like the idea of a push button starter tho, as this is the third 911 ignition switch issue i have had and like the idea of a fool proof circuit.

[T77911S]

do you have a car alarm? if so, check the wiring where the alarm splices in. there is usually a relay on the big yellow wire that goes to the solenoid.

[juicersr]

Update.

Well, the battery was getting good juice, but that damn yellow solenoid wire was showing screwball readings on the volt meter, sometime 12, sometimes not.

I made several attempt to track down where the problem was along the length of the wire, but was unsuccessful.

I finally just installed a push-button starter to the hot start relay and am now a much happier person. (Hey, i've always wanted a push-button starter, and there was a 'pre-marked' hole in the dash just to the right of the steering column that was simply begging to have a switch installed anyway!)


Car starts like a champ! I'll get around to the yellow wire at some point, but push button starter ROCKS for now.

Thanks as always guys for the info on ignition, starter circuit, and the threads on push button starting.

[psalt]

By "hot start relay" do you mean a little Bosch cube relay ? Does it release immediately or hang up the starter. I have had mixed success with them. Did you run a new wire from the button to the solenoid ?

[JohnJL]

I"d recommend trying to find the fault in that yellow #50 starter solnoid wire. At least disconnect it on both ends.

A previous owner of my appeared to have a similar problem with getting current to the fuel pump. Instead of removing the old wire he/she just added another cable to the + terminal on the pump. Eventually the original wire which was shorting out caught fire. Now I'm rewiring the whole car as a result.

[juicersr]

Originally Posted by psalt

By "hot start relay" do you mean a little Bosch cube relay ? Does it release immediately or hang up the starter. I have had mixed success with them. Did you run a new wire from the button to the solenoid ?

Salt, here is a pix of the 'hot start' relay system.


Here is the wiring diagram


Very simple hook up. Simply connect the red wire in the kit to the main starter terminal, the black wire with spade connector to the solenoid terminal, attach the yellow wire to a ground site (i used one of the 10mm bolts holding the engine tin to the oil cooler) and then hook the remaining blue wire to the wire which run to the push-button starter. U then just have to run a wire from the positive terminal of the battery to the push-button switch. I taped the end of the yellow solenoid wire off well. Zip tie everything under car and u are done.

Really, couldn't be any easier.

The push-button starter works perfectly, and just like the ignition switch, except that you can turn the engine over without it starting the car if the ignition key is not at the 'on' position.

Pix of push-button starter in place - $5 buck autozone, drilled hole in a pre-marked spot on dash just to right of steering column

[psalt]

The push-button starter works perfectly, and just like the ignition switch, except that you can turn the engine over without it starting the car if the ignition key is not at the 'on' position.


This would come in handy if you were Dan Gurney in the 1962 Daytona race, blew your engine, and won by stopping at the finish line, waiting and finishing on the starter motor...

Looking at your wiring, I will loop blue 85 to 30 and run yellow 86 to the button and ground to the other side of the button. I don't understand why the hot start relay hangs up, must be residual from the A/C or heater relay in the original yellow wire circuit.

[Ove]

Juicersr,

I've had all the problems you describe and more. Like you I have also replaced the starter with a lightweight one. Not done sorting out the problem yet, but it's due to insufficient voltage to the solenoid.

Anyway, you can fit some start buttons on the left side of the steering column, next too the ign.key (depending on the depth/length of the button).

Here's a pic of mine. It looks very similar to the horn button used on the 911R This makes starting the car a one hand operation even if the ign.switch start fails. The push/pull switch in the picture kills the power to the ignition and to the fuel pump.

[88911coupe]

Maybe a dumb question but I'm making in if these remote starters and need some clarification on the relay. I bought a couple with slight variations and want to see if it matters which one I use. One is 12V 30 A with 5 tabs, the other is 14v 60A and only has 4 tabs. I understand the 5 tab allows continuity "at rest" through #30 to 87a, the other does not. Shouldn't I use the one with 4 tabs since I don't need connectivity unles I want the starter engaged...correct? The other question is regarding the connection from #86 back to the battery. On Sherwoods tech article on Rennlist it states it goes to "5A at existing fuse box". Does this mean I have to find a 5 amp connection at the fuse box or can I just hook it up to the pos terminal and add an inline fuse? Sorry if these are dumb questions...electrical issues give me heartburn.

[amitch]

My car suddenly wouldn't start about a year ago. It was tracked down to the yellow wire where it had been cut to go into the alarm. The connector had come apart.

[john walker's workshop]

the fat yellow wire has a coupler out in the front trunk/cowl area, behind the left black plastic heat/def valve. it's often unplugged and run through alarm systems. easy enough to see with a flashlight and a little digging. if it's been unplugged and attached to other wires, disconnect the other wires and plug it back as original.

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by 88911coupe

Maybe a dumb question but I'm making in if these remote starters and need some clarification on the relay. I bought a couple with slight variations and want to see if it matters which one I use. One is 12V 30 A with 5 tabs, the other is 14v 60A and only has 4 tabs. I understand the 5 tab allows continuity "at rest" through #30 to 87a, the other does not. Shouldn't I use the one with 4 tabs since I don't need connectivity unles I want the starter engaged...correct? The other question is regarding the connection from #86 back to the battery. On Sherwoods tech article on Rennlist it states it goes to "5A at existing fuse box". Does this mean I have to find a 5 amp connection at the fuse box or can I just hook it up to the pos terminal and add an inline fuse? Sorry if these are dumb questions...electrical issues give me heartburn.

Wow, resurrecting a 6 year old post and peeps are trying to help the OP!
Maybe you should have started a new thread?
The 4 pole relay you have, as the schematic in post #10 shows in this old thread, will work just fine for a hot start relay. You do not need the 87a contact for this application.