e-Bay auction 2nd opinions

epbrown · 06-19-2001, 05:32 PM

Frequently we laugh at some of the cars on eBay, but a friend at work has been raving about this car for a week or so:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=592379514

It's already gone over his budget of $15,000, and he was looking for an SC anyway, but he's quite taken with the color and engine. I'll admit it, the car seems cool on paper, but it gives me the impression of being run ragged, as well as being a jumble of parts from various years. It's a car rebuilt to be fast, not an "RS" project as it claims. But, I've been written off as too picky, so before this Porsche newbie tries to sell the family farm for this thing: anyone think this car's worth $20 grand?

Emanuel

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Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

dtw · 06-19-2001, 06:08 PM

Sure it's worth it just for those 5-cam factory heads! (WTF is that???)

There's not much there to justify the price. Mismatched badging, small wheels, picky and expensive twin plug distributor, no indication of 7R case (must have for anything above 2.4l), no proof of condition and spec of fuel injection pump, odd torsion bar sizes, small wheels/tires for supposed large power, etc.

On the flipside, the body looks like it may be nice, there's sport seats, rare driving lights, and massive brakes.

It's just a mismatched car- worth good money to the right buyer. Maybe your buddy is that buyer, but sounds to me like he's got the fever. "Only" 58k on that engine scares me too- sounds like someone may have driven the snot out of the 2.8 and now can't afford a rebuild.

20K? No *%$#'ing way.

-d

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

kumma · 06-19-2001, 06:26 PM

just try to build that car for 15,000. i bet you cant do it. for the right person who wants that type of car, sure it just might be worth it. looks pretty good from th photos. we cant sit here and say every one elses cars are worth dog doo doo and ours are worth a ton.

Rot 911 · 06-19-2001, 06:34 PM

Strange car, some things the guy spared no expense (brakes, steel flares, dual plugs) others he was kinda cheap (didn't weld up the old exhaust outlet, Grant steering wheel) also, are those the correct gauges? The tach doesn't appear to have any redline markings and the fuel/oil level gauge looks from a later model. To many changes to justify the price, but I bet it sells for over 20K. 29 bids and 2 hours left to go.

Kurt V
72 911E

epbrown · 06-19-2001, 06:44 PM

Kumma, I'm not saying the car could be replicated for $15000. But you know how guys get about a car - the worst thing you can do is fall in love with a car you're interested in, because it colors your judgement. I'm hoping we can "talk him down" a bit.

The car, in my opinion, is worth $20k to someone that's got another $10k to put into it. It's not the car for someone that was looking for an SC coupe with low miles until a few days ago. The car sounds like it was driven hard for a number of years - that engine has a rebuild in it's near future, and I'm betting suspension work isn't far behind. There's no way to judge the quality of the mods done - they read sort of piece-meal to me. The car wasn't built to appreciate - it's not a buy-the-book RS replica, or even built to 73 S specs. It's not even a good example of a 73 T. In my opinion, once it passed the $10k mark, he should have given up on it. It's worth that much to someone who wants to continue driving the crap out of it, or it could be re-worked into something that would hold it's value better for another $10k as a project. As is, it's not worth $20k.

Emanuel

------------------
Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

epbrown · 06-19-2001, 06:53 PM

Kurt, It's been stalled at $15k since Saturday. I have a mental image of 29 bidders all having the same argument as me and my co-worker :-) I think the reserve is twenty grand, but I don't think it's going to make it.

Btw, the fuel guage says "unleaded only" - kinda strange for a 73, I'd think. He upgraded the tank to the larger 21 gal from a later model, so maybe he needed the guage to work with the fuel sender?

The 10,000 rpm tach can't be stock, nor a 180 mph speedometer - out of place for a 1973 911T. And the gearing ratio change bothers me because it means the car spent a lot of time at higher rpms than average (premature engine wear). So a 10k tach isn't reassuring...

I wish they'd stated the horsepower it puts out somewhere.

Emanuel

------------------
Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

[This message has been edited by epbrown (edited 06-19-2001).]

emcon5 · emcon5's Garage

Check out the terms of sale. Sounds like he does a ton of auctions doesn't it. Then you see that he has only got feedback one time. Curious.

Quote:

Originally posted by kumma:
just try to build that car for 15,000. i bet you cant do it.

I bet you are right. In fact, I bet you would have trouble building that car for $20K, not including the price of the doner car. But that really doesn't mean anything. Just because you put $20,000 into a $10,000 car, doesn't mean it is worth $30,000.

I also haven't seen ANYONE on this forum say "every one elses cars are worth dog doo doo and ours are worth a ton," The sad fact is that many car auctions on Ebay are kind of funny. Many of these cars are not what they are represented to be, and prices are much higher than they are realisticly worth. A good example is the

whacko that thinks his 78SC is worth $120,000 (buy it now price). Opening bid is $70K, (reserve not yet met). If you want that one, better act fast, only 17 hours left, with no bids(go figure).

The most honest auction I have seen in some time was from a Pelican board memeber "larkja", and he ended up getting screwed over by the winning bidder.

Tom

[This message has been edited by emcon5 (edited 06-19-2001).]

dtw · 06-19-2001, 07:14 PM

Kumma,
I'll have 20 or 25k in my RSR project by the time it's done (at least!!). But I also know that each piece is the way I wanted it; not the way the rest of the buying market does. As I say, the car is worth 20k to someone out there, just not everyone.

Yes the body looks great in the photos. The mechanicals are downright scary though. I'd love to have that car for 10k- it's got lots of potential.

Emcon,
Yeah that looks like some 15 yr. old colorblind kid wrote the ad. Jeeezz.

Black beauty, for example, is not dog doo. But we all know, including Jack, that he'll most likely NOT be getting his investment back out of it.

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Dave
1972 911T (E motor) RSR replica project
http://members.nbci.com/dtwinters/garage/

EdRogers · 06-19-2001, 07:29 PM

After reading the add a couple of times, I can't figure out what he is tryingto sell. There is too much information not shared. The 58k he is saying is the total miles on the car(not bad) but doesn't say what the miles are after the rebuild. The torsion springs are the same as mine, I think we both benefitted from an untimely demise of a early 930, he got the better brakes, I got rsr struts. The car has a lot into it. Much more than mine, probably ( I'm at over 25k with an SC motor).
All this said, I wouldn't trust anyone selling something like this for someone else. Too much space for "You don't say?" But I'm rooting for the guy. I'd sure like to be able to get 20k for my car, when I'm done with it, of course.
Ed
'70 911T w/930/10

Eric Coffey · 06-19-2001, 07:48 PM

I think the moral to the story is: be VERY suspicious and skeptical if you are even thinking about buying a 911 sight-unseen through places like eBay. Personally, I wouldn't recommend it unless the car happens to be in your area, and you can personally check it out, drive it, and run it by your wrench. For example, I just checked the 911's on eBay, and there is someone selling a 1987 Carrera coupe in "excellent condition" (item #592562850) that appears to be pieced together (including a fender-mount antenna, and a cabriolet stalk-mount 3rd brake light). So, buyer beware!

-Eric

epbrown · 06-19-2001, 07:56 PM

To me the ad reads that the rebuild has 58000 miles on it. It's never stated what the chassis has on it, an annoying but growing convention on eBay.

Funny that someone mentioned Jack. Not only was I thinking of Mr. Olsen in terms of the auction, but in a way my co-worker's fascination with this car grew out of my sharing the links to Jack's site about Cambria. He read up on Black Beauty while there and to him this car is analogous. Unfortunately, he's 20 years, two kids, and one mortgage away from being Jack Olsen :-)

Btw, with 4 minutes to go, he's come to his senses. Allah be praised.

Emanuel

------------------
Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car;
most people settle for the car." Chris Titus
1966 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
1983 Porsche 911 SC Targa

[This message has been edited by epbrown (edited 06-19-2001).]