Yikes, lost the back end today...

[andymin]

I have had my car for 5 years and this is the first time this has ever happened. Earlier I sent this email to a friend of mine who knows the places I am refering to. (North of England)


Saturday afternoon, quick 15 minutes drive round the block. Very cold and damp.

Set off, drive through Southdowns, along Langden to the Bowden lights, blat down Chester road, hang a left at Bucklow Hill, past all the Mere mansions, another left, along was is known as 'Tatton mile'. After this long straight the road twists and turns a bit, well it was the last turn that got me. A 90 degree right hander, was only doing about thirty, down to second, turn in, power on, whoa, rear tyres lost grip and round she came. Pretty scary actually, immediately took my foot off the pedal, non of that power on sliding stuff seen on TV. Did turn the wheel in a bit though. Lucky I wasn't going any faster or that anything was coming the other way.

Put the wind up me really, might cash the tax disc in and leave it in the garage until next spring. Don't think I'm cut out to be a racing driver, think I'll stick to polishing the damn thing instead.

Andy
77 Carrera 3.0
(now with a change of underwear)

[Mrdi]

Guaranteed you'll be back at that corner sooner than you think.
Glad to hear you're OK
Love the nomenclature Andy.
Post more often.
Mrdi

[Saffs]

I know where you mean, sort of, Andy - through going to Tatton Park.
I've lost the back end of my car twice. Both times in snow (Northern England), turning left, back-end comes out upon light braking. Easy to correct, but a bit scary in the *I'm going to wreck my car* way. Fun too, in a perverse sort of way.

[rscupper]

I don't know the place, but I've been there.

[old_skul]

I've lost the back end a bunch of times now

Last time was at an autocross - a long right hand sweeper through about 110 degrees. I lost it in the right place and managed to not hit any curbs. Pretty low speed stuff.

The other times were on the track, in the rain/wet. Higher speeds - like 40 or so. Now *that* was entertaining. I spun no less than twice that weekend.

Take it out in a wet parking lot sometime and get the feel for it. *Learn* to power on and "rescue" the back end. It really works and you learn car control this way.

[masraum]

Well, as long as you keep getting lucky and missing fixed objects you will learn. Definitely if you aren't going to go to any track events you should find empty parking lot's to experiment in.

Glad everything came out OK!

[orbmedia]

It's not a 911 problem, it's an England problem. You're so bloody North that gravity is pulling the arse back in place.

[Bill Douglas]

Sounds like fun.

[pwd72s]

Andy, anybody who has played with P cars at all has had the same experience. Glad there was np sheet metal damage, and that the only injury was to your pride. Autocross is a safe way to learn...most courses laid out so that when somebody spins, nothing happens other than the loss of some tire rubber. Might be a great way for you to study this Porsche trait further. Under the blessings of law enforcement, I might add.

[Superman]

With all due respect to PCA regions everywhere, I know for a fact I am very lucky to be in this one (PNWPCA). Besides the Great and Powerful Wizard of Fordahl, we have Randy and Tyson and just a whoe bunch of awesome guys. We also have what sounds like a comparatively open, fast autocross venue, Bremerton Airport. There is nothing whatsoever to hit there but cones. It's a huge abandoned airport runway and the grass skirt is hundreds of feet wide. So, I go there to spin. They don't let me do it on public roadways, so I go to Bremerton. Last time there I spun clear around (well, as far around as you can spin a 911, which spins kinda like a spoon would) twice.

I did that same trick on a public roadway once and got away with it, but was pretty disappointed in myself for that. I do get a little loose occasionally on public roadways, but just for fun. I wonder if anyone else likes to do that too.

[masraum]

I do get a little loose occasionally on public roadways, but just for fun. I wonder if anyone else likes to do that too.

Um, I think you can count on it. Can you say "World Rally Championship." That looks like just about as much fun as you can have in a car.

[tobluforu]

This is not the greatest thing for the car but, i love to come into certain corners, have to be going around 25-40(second gear), slip the clutch and mash the pedal. There is nothing more fun then a controlled power-on slide.

[tight as a bull's ass]

I know the feeling of losing control and then regaining it.

I almost lost the back end to some black ice while driving up in the White Mountains in NH near the Kankamangus highway last winter.

For 1/2 second there, I thought I was going off the cliff.

But it turned out ok..you just gotta be careful driving the winter icy roads.

-----------------

Emmanuel
83sc
http://www.basementouttakes.com/

[carrera]

this is one of the joys of 911's
steering with the rear tires
it slows you down around a track but great fun nonetheless

[Matt Holcomb]

A driver of Bernd Rosemeyer or Walter Rorhl's calibre could show you how steering with the rear wheels can actually help you cut quicker times around a track than if you avoided oversteer, but the technique only works in the dry, and to make it work in the dry you probably need to be as prodigiously talented as Rosemeyer or Rorhl!

But wouldn't it be cool!


Matt Holcomb
1974 911 Carrera 2.7 Euro
1975 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
Dedicated Homepage
Engine Rebuild Homepage
Porsche Owners Gallery Profile
Pelican Gallery Profile

[Slate Grey]

Wrong kind of leaves on the road?

[Bill Douglas]

Andy, it should have had you smiling like a Cheshire cat. A good idea would be to do a track day or two, maybe on a wet day. It's amazing what it does for your driving skills. A little bit of tail out won't hurt once you have a bit of confidence and will make you a lot safer driver. Plus, that Carrera 3.0 baby you drive was born for that sort of thing.

[APKhaos]

Too many ways to enjoy these cars - some planned, others spontaneous!
Just had a great weekend at the VIR long course - one of the best kept secrets on the east coast. My last four DEs involved multiple spins, which made the NNJ PCA 'two spins and you're out' rule a little daunting. Practice really works - kept it between the lines, and had my smoothest, fastest laps ever at VIR.

Truth is that time on a skid pan, parking lot, or other safe area is the best possible way to get to know how your car behaves. Better than discovering things at high speed on the track, and far better than getting caught in a snap on the public roads.

Ah well, driving home happy Sunday night and hit a deer to level things out at bit. Ugh!!! Glancing blow, with minor fender damage. Definitely could have been much worse. Could have spun into a herd of deer!
Tony K
85 Carrera

[ericleach]

What happened to you is actually called "Trailing Throttle Oversteer". It happened to a friend of mine, he was on a freeway on-ramp when he down shifted from third to second an puched it. About a second later he was off the end of the on-ramp.
Lot's of suspension and body damage.

[nostatic]

The first vehicle I learned to drive was a dunebuggy (fiberglass body on a '65 VW pan/engine). When I was 12 my dad taught me how to shift, and away we went...offroad on dirt and sand. It also had cutting brakes (individual levers for the left and right rear wheels), and that combined with rear wheel drive made for interesting cornering abilities. When I was 16 I got a '67 Bug, and drove that to death. I got very familiar with it's handling characteristics in wet and on dirt (stock bugs can do amazing things offroad). The first time I got behind the wheel of a p-car it wasn't too much different...well, except going from 60hp to 217hp (doh!). The similarities are amazing though...

Probably the best "lost the back end" practice I had was after a rainstorm. A local dead-end street was covered in 2" of mud. About 15 minutes of full throttle mayhem in the '67 taught me alot about hangin' the rear end out (and no, that was not one of my porn film credits).

While DE is probably the best way to learn, I think off-road is another great place to learn to break it loose...