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a.k.a. Kevin M.
 
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911 electrical complete re wire wiring harness info advice?

I have found a few threads about completely rewiring a 911. One in particular recommended an aftermarket VW harness, I contacted the pelican that used it (with success) and have purchased it for my car.

I am starting this thread to compile info and or pit falls for the process as most of this will be buried in my rebuild thread.

I have removed (cut in 3 places, please don't give me crap, it was a long day) the OEM harness from my car. For the record it weighs 20lbs, the new one weighs 11lbs.

My car will be pretty well stripped down and contain the following:
3.0l engine with carbs, single plug, oem fuel pump, push button start, lightweight battery (starter, alternator, distributor)
oem gauges (illuminated) with oem senders (tach, speed, oil, fuel, etc, etc, no clock)
Headlights (h4, w/ aftermarket switch)
turn signals f and r, windshield wipers, interior lights, under hood and trunk lights, horn, rear plate light

Please offer advice on the following:
1) Are there specific issues and/or anomalies inherent in the 911 electrical systems that could pose problems during and after this rewire?
2) Are there things I should do now…rather than after the fact?
3) What have I missed in the list above?
4) Other advice and experience is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, kevin.

Old:

New:


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Old 01-21-2010, 08:34 AM
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Please offer advice on the following:
1) Are there specific issues and/or anomalies inherent in the 911 electrical systems that could pose problems during and after this rewire?
2) Are there things I should do now…rather than after the fact?
3) What have I missed in the list above?
4) Other advice and experience is greatly appreciated.

1. The old school fuse blocks and fuses suck.
2. Maybe look into adding relays to reduce failures of switch contacts. Trace out the OEM wiring diagrams to see what loads the small switch contacts are switching. High loads should be switched via relays. And too many circuits are under one fuse. Add more fuses.

I have been working on a new schematic for my '73 RSR project. Take a look. If you can't view the image very well, PM me and I can send you the Visio file. It is 1.6Meg.






Last edited by abisel; 01-21-2010 at 09:54 AM..
Old 01-21-2010, 09:50 AM
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One thing, unless you make a complete and 100% accurate wiring schematic including the new color codes you are creating a nightmare for the next owner or yourself when you need to go back and troubleshoot a problem in a couple of years.
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterytrain View Post
One thing, unless you make a complete and 100% accurate wiring schematic including the new color codes you are creating a nightmare for the next owner or yourself when you need to go back and troubleshoot a problem in a couple of years.
+1 on that.

The schematics I posted here are still in work, so if anyone wants to use them, keep that in mind. Things have changed before and are most likely to change again.
Old 01-21-2010, 12:24 PM
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a.k.a. Kevin M.
 
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The kit comes with a complete schematic and the wires are marked every foot or so.....good point, any changes or mods I make will be noted for my or next owners reference.
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Old 01-21-2010, 02:48 PM
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While maybe too late, you should consider that the original Wiring Colors and numbers were not arbitraily selected by Porsche but confrom to the relvant DIN standards.

http://www.e38.org/understanding%20euro%20wiring%20diagrams.pdf

Color Codes are based on DIN 47 002
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterytrain View Post
One thing, unless you make a complete and 100% accurate wiring schematic including the new color codes you are creating a nightmare for the next owner or yourself when you need to go back and troubleshoot a problem in a couple of years.
+1
and use lots of relays particularly the headlights the stock dimmer swith will not last long at full amperage.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:37 PM
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Also preplanning is important the gauges are unique in the wiring so study the factory harness and plan changes. I would almost be willing to guess by the time you are done adapting the aftermarket to the 911 specific there will be negligable weight savings. I thought about the route you are going and decided adapting ATO fuses to the exsiting system was the way to go. Good luck and document everything for the future DIY'ers out there.
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76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 01-21-2010, 03:41 PM
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negligible weight savings is the result of every analysis I have done on this

it is hard to get accurate data on the stock harness however
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:59 PM
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My main concern was not weight savings, that info was requested on my rebuild thread and thought it best to include here as well..... my motivation for replacement is:
1) Learn an auto electrical system from the ground up
2) Not have to worry about old wires, connectors, future issues, etc
3) Add and remove things as I see fit without impact on other systems, future mods, etc.
4) Make it look nice and pretty

Almost everything will be new/replaced/rebuilt in the car….the project has taken on a life of its own.

Oddly, I have just learned that one of the new guys at the shop that is doing the bodywork and paint has a degree in electrical engineering….that may make my life a little easier.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost1001 View Post
I have found a few threads about completely rewiring a 911. One in particular recommended an aftermarket VW harness, I contacted the pelican that used it (with success) and have purchased it for my car.

I am starting this thread to compile info and or pit falls for the process as most of this will be buried in my rebuild thread.

I have removed (cut in 3 places, please don't give me crap, it was a long day) the OEM harness from my car. For the record it weighs 20lbs, the new one weighs 11lbs.

My car will be pretty well stripped down and contain the following:
3.0l engine with carbs, single plug, oem fuel pump, push button start, lightweight battery (starter, alternator, distributor)
oem gauges (illuminated) with oem senders (tach, speed, oil, fuel, etc, etc, no clock)
Headlights (h4, w/ aftermarket switch)
turn signals f and r, windshield wipers, interior lights, under hood and trunk lights, horn, rear plate light

Please offer advice on the following:
1) Are there specific issues and/or anomalies inherent in the 911 electrical systems that could pose problems during and after this rewire?
2) Are there things I should do now…rather than after the fact?
3) What have I missed in the list above?
4) Other advice and experience is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, kevin.

Old:

New:

That's cool!
Can you share your shopping/parts list, and cost?
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:39 PM
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a.k.a. Kevin M.
 
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Sure, so far the harness ($350) and interior lights ($12 each)...i know I will need a few more parts and some wire loom, zip tie, this and that. If i am under $600 by the time I am dome I will be happy....keep in mind, everything will be new.

here is the link: VW Volkswagon Stuff Custom Cars Classic Hotrods Streetrods-Watsons StreetWorks
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:15 AM
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a.k.a. Kevin M.
 
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Hi,

I finally started to wire the car…..so far so good.

The one thing I really like is the ability to place everything exactly where I want it. I will be using water proof toggles and after market headlight and ign. switch. So concerns about OEM amp ratings are negligible.....the kit also has relays where needed.

Please keep in mind that is will be more of a race car build with minimal systems. The kit has some accommodations for accessories, but if you want to rewire a street car with all the bells and whistles this may not be the kit for you.

So far all wire lengths work with the chassis….not everything will be in the stock locations. Most notably the fuse block will be mounted on the inside fire wall in the pass. side foot well. OEM gauges will be used.

One thing I have learned so far….I had hired someone to do the wiring they tried to “build” the harness out of the car and then install the whole thing at once….that did not work. I removed everything and I am running one wire at a time. This ensures proper placement/length of each individual wire. I will then go back and wrap/pull bundles as dictated by the correct paths of the wires.

Over all it is actually fun…the kit has good schematics and nice components….it will be cool once the horn works and lights turn on!!

I also need a good grommet kit….anyone know where I can get one…or individual, I think they are metric sizes.

Kevin



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Old 06-05-2010, 09:28 AM
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Pelican Parts.com - Wiring Grommets
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" Porsche there is no substitute" I always liked that saying. Air cooled is the only way to go!
76 911 C.R.A.P. Gruppe #2 BIG time TURBO C.R.A.P. Bitz EFI/EDIS Now MegaSquirt 3
76 Blazer also restored by me
Old 06-05-2010, 09:32 AM
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looks like it is coming along!

do you have a map for how you laid out the relay & fuse blocks, etc.?
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:58 AM
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One thing, when you pull the wires back to make bundles, inspect them very closely to be sure the insulating outers are not abraded.
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:16 PM
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When building a new wiring harness for a Porshce or any other car, I suggest that the old pattern be nailed down and then build on top of it. Thank you for sharing the pics.
Old 06-05-2010, 08:59 PM
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Nice job! Couldn't tell from the pics, but I'd suggest the following thoughts.

Use some sort of protective (high temp) sleeving or jacketing for the longer runs, shrink sleeving for strain relief.

If you've already started, consider the plastic split sleeving (polyamide conduit is nut one example). Panel edge grommet strips are good for panel feed-thrus where the holes are not circular. All of this to protect your efforts from chafing or corrosive liquid spills.

You'll want to perform isolation/ continuity tests to ensure the wiring/crimps are good end to end and not shorted to the chassis or adjacent wiring.

Kapton or electrical tape is also handy of course. Keep in mind the Kapton is fairly heat resistant, but flammable none-the less.

There are also pre-made cable/wire markers/labels (tape) out there which I'd suggest for permanent use instead of the blue masking tape. The labels you made are a little large and once you remove them you'll be 'blind'. The paper is flammable and the ink will fade. The labels are much more professional and won't get in your way. It would go a long way to assisting you when / if troubleshooting or doing a mod later on.

++1 on the schematic suggestions above - keep an updated master copy.
+1 on the ATO type fuse suggestion. (much less oxidation - much better secure connection)

Question on your pass. side fuse block - will it clear the floor board? Concern is location near feet. Cover and protect if using a metal floorboard.

I have not done extensive auto wiring, but am no stranger to cable/harness design in another industry. Some sources would be Newark, Digikey, panduit and too many others. (distributors, not Mfrs.- no affiliation with either)
Good luck.
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Last edited by steely; 06-06-2010 at 12:07 AM..
Old 06-05-2010, 11:52 PM
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I wll be doing this with my car, but am using a 'Painless' kit. You can by them with various accessory circuits, and the wires are letter labeled as to there function overy foot or so.
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvanderpyl View Post
I wll be doing this with my car, but am using a 'Painless' kit. You can by them with various accessory circuits, and the wires are letter labeled as to there function overy foot or so.
Which painless kit are you using?

I just had a look at their web site but couldn't find anything VW or Porsche specific.

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Old 06-06-2010, 06:16 AM
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