87targa G50 master/slave cyl question

[FLYONWALL9]

After doing some reading and searching on here, I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to need to replace both master and slave cylinders. While on my way home the other day I came to a stop sign just up from my house. Push in the clutch and it stays to the floor, now before when it did this I would just toe lift if back up. Only this time when I depress the clutch again it acted like it wasn't even connected to the car. Just went down with ZERO effort.

So, in my research here I've come to the above conclusion that it would be best to replace both. My question is; which or what parts do you guys consider being the best. I've seen many different brands and so forth with the host and Ebay. I also read with the host that an upgrade exists what is upgraded? Also, if you have references for the procedures that would be great. The car is an 87targa G50.

I see you can also buy a rebuild kit. Would this be only a second best repair with a full replacement being inevitable in the near future? Cost diff being nearly 140 bucks or so.

Thanks for your time and efforts!
Scott

[FLYONWALL9]

Surely someone can help? please

[FLYONWALL9]

Could someone please help? I'm going to have to buy my parts on Monday.

Thanks,
Scott

[Billyfeet]

I don't have any knowledge of brands of cylinders. All Porsche brake hydraulics I have ever had experience with have been ATE. But I can say with confidence that buying a new master and slave is the way to go. The time and effort do the work is not worth a rebuild going bad soon after all the work. Pelican has these parts, they are not expensive. Good luck!

[Tigerrat]

Yes, I'd say based on both of those being bears to R&R I'd go with new. No help re brands nor upgrade but thought that was just related to cylinder diameter.

[FLYONWALL9]

Originally Posted by Tigerrat

Yes, I'd say based on both of those being bears to R&R I'd go with new. No help re brands nor upgrade but thought that was just related to cylinder diameter.

SORRY, but none of this makes sense....

[jimbauman]

Other than working the clutch pedal, what other diagnostic efforts have you made? You can bet that BOTH the master and slave cylinders are not faulty... maybe one or the other, but maybe neither...

JB

[FLYONWALL9]

Originally Posted by jimbauman

You can bet that BOTH the master and slave cylinders are not faulty... maybe one or the other, but maybe neither...

JB

How would you trouble shoot it? It has no hydraulic pressure
at the clutch pedal. That being the case wouldn't the cause be
one or the other, master or slave? None of the lines leak

[jimbauman]

First and foremost I would jack the car up, get underneath and look for something broken or leaking. Check out the slave as best you can - and look inside the bell housing. Hope to God you don't see this:

Broken G50 case

JB

[FLYONWALL9]

Jim,

Yeah, now that would suck MAJOR! With a failure
of that nature would it make a hell of a noise?

See, here is how mine went down. When I had my
PPI before I got the car, he went all over the car for
3 days. I got a pretty good bill of health with the
exception of the normal oil leaks. One of these leaks
was a seal on the slave cyl. At the time it was so little
he said I could get by for several months. Mostly because
he and the car were out of town, I was doing a fly and buy.
Over the next couple of months I drive the car without any
issues until one day I crank the car to warm before heading
out. Push in the clutch and it stays on the floor. I reach down
and pull it up and all is well again. Call the same mech and
he reminds me of the slave and that more than likely due
to the leaking seal it was getting air in the line. So, I take
it to my buds shop, put it on a lift and bleed the clutch and
breaks. It worked and felt perfect for another couple weeks
or month until it happens again. Only this time when you
pull it up and depress it, it stays on the floor.

So, that is where I am. I feel 99.09% that its the slave. DAMN
SURE HOPE SO anyway.

My question and reason for the post was to find out if one
brand is better than another, who would have the best price
and easy to work with.

I'LL HOPE and pray that it doesn't have the issue you linked me
to, and I gotta say; you've got me worried......

[rcaradimos]

slave cylinder bleeding how to help.. please


Replace or rebuild the slave, bleeding can be tricky but your friend seems like he knows how.

[Hendog]

With regards to the "upgrade": I believe they are refering to the clutch fork upgrade in the G50. I had mine upgraded when the clutch was replaced. I didn't do it myself. I believe the fork and the guide is replaced with better/stronger parts.

Now to your slave cylinder problem: if you had a small leak and were to pull the pedal back up after it hit the floor, would you not be sucking air back into your system via that leak? Also, do you still have a good brake pedal? I think the brakes and clutch share the same master cylinder. So my thought is that your master is still good if you have good brakes, but your clutch slave needs the leak fixed (or replaced).

[FLYONWALL9]

Hendog,

Thanks for the reply..


Yes, I do still have good breaks. However, the breaks and
clutch system though they share the same res. they are
separate systems from that point. They would have to be
or one failure would effect more than one system and make
the car very dangerous. That is so long as you keep the res
full......

[Billyfeet]

Flyonwal, your description of the history of the problem seems to indicate a slow leak, with air eventually getting into system. You could replace the slave and see how it goes. Your brakes have no connection to clutch system except the fluid reservoir. I would get a new cylinder instead of rebuilding the old one.

[VMAX1]

My 87 carrera clutch hit the floor and the upgrade was needed. I can't remember what broke, happened several years ago. Open the bleeder and have someone push the clutch down and check for fluid squirt. The power bleeding kit, sold here, is a one man operation.

[FLYONWALL9]

THANKS GUYS!!!!!

I placed an order today for a slave cylinder, it should be
here by 5pm on Thursday. I'll put it on that eve and hope
to be driving it home. I'll be pulling the car to my buddies
shop so I can get the car in the air. I really don't want to
have to lower the engine as I have read in similar posts.


Later this year I think I am going to put a clutch in the car.
At that time I'll do other repairs that are common while
doing the clutch. I think I'll upgrade the fork, spring style
disc, main seal, oil lines, and lastly MAJOR CLEAN....

[rcaradimos]

Jacking up the drivers side rear raises the body up to get to the slave, you might not be able to reach it with car on lift. Use jack stands for support.

[FLYONWALL9]

I thought I would give a bit of an update....

First I called our forum sponsor to ensure I got the proper part and good quality. I did price shop and found them to be quite competitive, with very good service and a helpful sales/tech support. I ordered the part on a Monday and requested shipping to ensure I would have it by Friday. The part got to me 3 full days ahead of time, even faster than the predicted tracking online!

I took all posted messages to me into consideration, and kept my fingers cross that I diagnosed the issue properly and HOPED nothing else failed. The last post suggested that picking the car up with a lift wouldn't have room to squeeze the part out. Which wasn't the case at all, lifting the car by its proper lift points will unload the suspension allowing one to reach the part. PROVIDED you don't have man hands! I couldn't get my arm past all its part,
but my buddy could. He's a rather small chap, perfect for working on all sorts of imports.

SO, onto the repair. Getting all the fasteners broken free was a bit tricky but not impossible. So, the old part out of the car I could clearly see where the fluid was leaking from. The accordion type boot on the piston (likely not the term for that part) had a hole in it.
On to putting in the new Pelican FTE slave was straight forward and pretty quick. We then put on a machine they have at the shop which sucks/flushes out all the lines. I wanted to do that and put in all new fluid because I didn't have reference to when it was last done. After we bled all 5 points I jump into the car to see if we had resolved the issue. The pedal would hardly depress at all! I then thought about all the horror stories, you kind folks brought to my attention. My buddy said he thought he heard a bit of a noise from the area of the slave. Back into the air we went. We clamped off the freshly bleed line and pulled the new part back off. Took a little mirror into the tight spaces to get a look see into the bell housing if you will. We think upon putting the new part in place that the piston didn't come into proper contact with the fork. In with the new once more, this time we hand bled the clutch line. Very shortly that new clutch feel was once again attained. While under the car I made not of where all the oil leaks were so later in the year I can pick my battles.

In short the process was really rather easy, I would give it a difficulty of no more than a 3-4 IF that. Only giving it higher because of bleeding the system like I did. Those who don't have access to a lift or a bleeder like we used it will take quite a good time. Our work time was 30min tops. Those that follow, take it from me if you can unscrew a bolt / nut you CAN
make this repair...

Thanks one and all for your messages and feedback.

Thanks to our host for such great service.

Oh, it should also be noted that the noise my buddy heard was the boot and retaining washer of the slave cylinder coming apart. We did have to repair the part that I screwed up. I intended on taking step by step pics but my Crohn's disease is in full swing which almost kept me from going up to the shop. SO, others will have to do that. I'm sure its already been done...

CHEERS