915 - same dog teeth on 1st and 2nd ??

[motomiata]

I am having trouble locating the 1st gear only dog teeth here in Europe. According to my supplier it is possible to use the 2nd gear dog teeth combined with the corresponding anchor block and stone.

Our host states this too here : https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/101550316.htm?pn=10-1550-316-M127&SVSVSI=4249&DID=3402#backToTopAnc

Can anyone confirm this is the case? If so, any down sides to this?

I'm aware that it's possible to upgrade to the asymmetrical ´77 type, but the cost keeps me from doing that, I'm on a tight budget.

[proporsche]

have you tried rosepassion..?? here is the number..P71309

Ivan

[motomiata]

yes, and that very item is the same as P71309 and for 2nd gear. It has only one cutout in the sleeve for the anchor. The 1st gear version has 2 cutouts. I'm in dialogue with Rosepassion about this.

[Matt Monson]

Originally the 1-2 were the same. I forget the year of the update to asymmetrical, but it was mid-70s. If you used the second gear parts you would also need an early slider. 930.302.411.00 is the part number.

I have white box German 1st gear teeth, but you need to add a 9° backcut. Ranch and Spiegle makes one with the backcut. I would expect you can find it with a US vendor.

[gled49]

If you have to replace the dog teeth in 1st, the 2nd gear symmetric teeth are ok. But you must use the one piece brake band, anchor block, thrust block and synchro for 1st gear. The synchro parts you need are the same as SC or Carrera. If the shift sleeve is worn out and the 1-2 shift guide is early (up thru 76) use the early sleeve. If the 1-2 shift guide is late (77—>) then you need the symmetric sleeve Matt mentioned to use the symmetric 2nd gear dog teeth. You didn’t mention what year trans you’re working on, so lots of speculation.

[motomiata]

Thanks for the feedback.

The car is a ‘72, but I’m not sure the transmission is original as the serial number is worn away. It looks as an early 915.

According to the description in the link in my first post, the brake band, block and anchor are similar to 2nd gear. And that’s what I have picked up on other sites. The one piece brake band was introduced from 77 using the asymmetric dog teeth. ??

So, can I use the 2nd gear type dog teeth with either old style brake band, anchor and thrust block or the 77 onwards single piece brake band?

I’m changing the shift sleeve as well.

[kevingross]

Rauch & Spiegel have a European distributor, so you should be able to source their dog rings (engagement teeth) closer to home.

Somewhere on their web site, Pelican Parts lists the parts needed to upgrade an early 1st gear to the later asymmetric dog ring, etc. My list of the components is:
915.302.241.14 dog ring (Rauch & Spiegel 10-1550-312)
915.302.301.13 synchronizer ring, 1st gear (915.302.301.06)
928.302.319.08 double brake band
928.302.321.00 stop / anchor block
930.302.411.02 sliding sleeve
915.302.315.01 stone
915.302.401.02 guide sleeve

Good luck with the project.

[motomiata]

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

A complete upgrade to the post ´77 style asymmetric 1st gear dog teeth is not on the chart do to the budget. (USD 598,- plus shipment, custom and VAT, that's around USD 1.000,- on my doorstep).

I have researched numerous European 911 parts sites and the Rauch & Spiegel parts are nowhere to be found locally. Furthermore more of those sites states the same as our host: that the 2nd gear dog teeth with one slot can be used on 1st gear as well. Using the 2nd gear anchor block, brake band and stop.

I don't think the one-piece brake band and anchor block for the post 77 asymmetrical dog teeth will work on a 2nd gear dog teeth. The synchro band for this model is different and 1st gear specific.

It seems my "budget choice" is to use the 2nd gear one-slot dog teeth on 1st gear using the appropriate anchor block etc. As per the specification at our hosts webshop, see below.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/101550316.htm?pn=10-1550-316-M127&SVSVSI=4249&DID=3402#backToTopAnc

[oldie44]

I've done this sort of thing several times for 901/914 transmissions. For a 1972 915, you would need to use the 2nd gear dog teeth and anchor block; etc like those used in your current 2nd gear.

[47silver]

I believe that 72 would have the clutch side gasket that cannot be replaced without dismantling the transmission. This may help you identify the year of the transmission.

[gled49]

If u try to use the double brake band synchro parts with the 2nd gear dog teeth in the 1st gear position, it won’t work. U must update to the one piece brake band with the rest of the 1st gear internal parts. If all internals are 72, don’t replace guide and use early shift sleeve. The use of the early main shaft seal (72 to mid 73) is another issue.

[Matt Monson]

Hans,

You are correct in thinking that if you use the symmetrical teeth on 1st, you need to use the second gear brake band parts.

[motomiata]

Thanks again for the feedback Matt. I’ll move on with that set-up. Seems logic and straight forward.