Slightly OT-Need help with VW Golf GTi clutch change

[Rufblackbird]

Hi all,
I hope someone here has had experience with these cars. I couldn't find a better BBS than the one here. I recently bought (might as well say saved from a junkyard) a '86 VW GTi for $600. With 130K miles on the clock, it desperately needed a new clutch. I proceeded to try to change the clutch, but I am stuck. I have everything disconnected, but the transaxle doesn't wanna come out. The passenger side c/v flange is blocked by the flywheel, and the top transaxle mount doesn't have too much space to move around. The Bentley manual doesn't say to take the mount off; is that something I have to do? If anyone has any suggestions/comments/hints it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Oh..what does it mean when some sort of oil is leaking out from my c/v joint?

------------------
Jeff
1976 911S Coupe

[john70t]

I don't know if this will help just some ideas but popping the left ball joint and swinging out the strut might help make space(?).
Can you remove an engine mount and drop it on an angle?
A leaking cv boot needs to be repaired. It will spin grease all over, start clicking, then break. A GTI is better than the average beater. I had the same problem with my 87 golf gl and replaced it with a $100 remanufactured from kragen (strait oem for the pcar). Your flipping a coin with remans but the alternatives are split-boots(do NOT work)or seperating the cv cage(not worth it if already clicking).

[Superman]

You may have to tip the engine a bit to get the tranny out, and of course you must support the engine. You may have to remove the front motor mount. At some point, there will be room and you can get it out. Craziest clutch I ever saw. The pressure plate is bolted to the crankshaft, the flywheel has a hole in the center for the input shaft, which has the clutch actuating shaft in its center. I think German engineers take psychedelic drugs.

Oil, thin like motor oil or gear oil, coming out of the CV joint on disassembly, means the puck at the back of the drive flange has come off. There should be a metal puck, about 1-1.5 inches in diameter that seals the center of the drive flange on the inside.

Clean the CV joints, reassemble and grease the poop out of them. Outer CV joints are tougher to save. Outer CV joints that have had torn boots, may not be worth saving.

[Early_S_Man]

Jeff,

First chance you get ... buy a Bentley manual for that car! They don't put color schenatic diagrams in them any more the way they did in the '70s, and that was a really BAD cost-cutting measure, but they are still the best manuals for a VW!
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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 10-30-2001).]

[cds72911]

Hi,

I have done more VW clutch changes than any non-mechanic deserves (used to race them and do my own service), so here is a procedure I used ->

* Break the 30mm nut loose on the outer CV (in the middle of the wheel) before you lift the car.

* Break the lug bolts loose (if you don't have an impact wrench).

* Jack the car up as high as you can reasonably go. Insert jack stands under the rear subframe.

* Loosen or remove the inner CV joint bolts on both sides of the tranny. Tap the inner joint with a plastic hammer to knock it if it is stuck.

* Remove the driver side lug bolts, then the wheel.

* Remove the large nut and washer holding the outer CV joint to the hub.

* Disconnect the bolt that locks the ball joint post to the steering spindle (wheel bearing housing). Pop the post of the ball joint out of the spindle using a pry bar. (If you do this it won't mess up your alignment as much as other methods).

* Pry the spindle outward and remove the drive axle.

* Remove the shield (or 2 depending on vintage) that are under the tranny covering the bottom 1/8 of the flywheel (11mm bolts into tranny housing), between the tranny and engine.

* ***IMPORTANT*** Remove the small metal shield bolted to the back of the tranny above the pass side inner CV - it is very hard to see this one, but it will prevent the tranny from separating from the engine!!!!

* Remove the two plastic "dog bone" shaped connectors in the shift linkage.

EITHER

* Use an engine lift/VW engine holding fixture to hold the engine up from the top on the driver side front lift eye cast into the head;

OR

* Using two floor jacks (use a wood block to save your oil pan) - put one under the driver side of the oil pan, but not in the way of the tranny bell housing - put the other under the passenger side.

* Support the tranny so it doesn't fall.

* Remove the nut holding the ground strap to the tranny mounting bolt at the back top of the tranny. Remove the ground strap.

* Remove the starter and disconnect the reverse light electrical plug.

* Break loose, but do not remove, all of the Tranny mounting bolts that hold it to the engine (don't forget the ones in the back).

* Disconnect all of the motor mounts (pass side rear, driver side rear, front middle). You can disconnect the four bolts holding the passenger rear mount to the block, if you want. Remove the center bolt on the driver side mount then take off both of the "arms" that rest on top of motor mount and bolt to the tranny.

* Remember support the tranny. Remove the bolts holding the tranny to the engine.

* Tilt the engine so the tranny side is slightly downward. Pull the tranny toward the driver side while allowing it to drop at a downward angle. (I always find it easiest to do this with two people one under the tranny like a bench press and the other guiding from above - probably not the OSHA approved way though).

* Now is a good time to replace all seals including the drive flange outer seals, inner flange seals, input shaft seal, clutch pushrod seal.

* Remove the flywheel from the pressure plate (still connected to the engine) using a 9mm 12 point socket. Remove the bolts incrementally, loosening them in a cross pattern. The clutch disk will fall out when you remove this.

* If your pressure plate and flywheel are good, just replace the clutch disk (make sure it is centered before tighening the flyheel bolts) and reassemble with new flywheel fasteners.

Reassembly is the reverse of removal. ;-)

This job can be done by two guys in about three hours without cutting any corners (if you have a race the next day...). Plan on 8 for a first time R&R.

Cheers,
Charlie

PS. The Bentley manuals are indespensible like Warren says (the A3 one is the worst, the A2 one is much better). Also the VWVortex.com forums used to be good, but I think they aren't as useful as when the site was small and people knew each other (it used to be nice like the Pelican BBS is now). Occasionally you may find some good info there still though.

PPS. If you drain the tranny fluid first you'll save some weight. Replace with Redline MTL or MT 90 (can't remember which is for 020 and which is for 02A). Redline works magic on VW trannys.

PPPS. Superman is right on about the fluid leaking out of your inner CV, it is usually transmission fluid mixed with whatever grease was left in the CV joint when the inner flange seal came undone. You can get these seals inexpensively (I think the kit includes a seal and a circlip) and tap them in using an appropriately sized socket as a drift. Check your fluid level afterwards in case you lost a lot.

PPPS. You can replace boots by themselves if they're torn and the CV is still OK. You just remove the CV from the shaft (comes off with a few taps with a heavy hammer and brass drift while holding the shaft in a soft jaw vice). There is a boot kit available ($12 or so) to replace them. The only quirky thing is the special tool you need to compress the metal clamp. Make sure you get the right boot (90 or 100 mm CV joints) - they don't interchange well.

Oops, I forgot to mention removing the clutch cable, but I'm sure you're past that already!

[This message has been edited by cds72911 (edited 10-30-2001).]

[FrdzRed]

The leaking oil from the CV joint is probably the leaking from the oil seal on the flange that is bolted to the transaxle. That seal has a tendency to pop out and dump oil into the CV joint. You can get a new seal but I believe you need to buy the whole seal set for the transaxle to get it.

[Rufblackbird]

Thanks guys! I just dropped the transaxle yesterday, really appreciate the info!

------------------
Jeff
1976 911S Coupe

[pwd72s]

Hey, I don't have a GTI. Doubt that I'll ever buy one. But Charlie? You and other guys on this board like you, willing to share things learned through the school of hard knocks? That's what makes this board so EFFING GREAT!

[Superman]

That's the best description of this procedure I have ever seen.

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'83 SC

[Rufblackbird]

Agreed, Superman! These directions are clearer than the Bentley manual! Thanks, Charlie!

BTW those inner cv seals are $20 each! I wonder if I got ripped of at the VW dealer today? $70 total for a few seals and bolts!

------------------
Jeff
1976 911S Coupe

[cds72911]

Thanks for the kind words.

I bought so much stuff when I was racing that the local dealer parts department even gave me "wholesale cash" pricing. The dealer tends to ream you on prices, but there are alternatives.

Since Wayne doesn't sell VW parts, I feel OK pointing you to another place - www.germanautoparts.com. They have dealer parts at much lower prices.

From their site:
"We can save you time and money by delivering original equipment parts directly to your door at up to 70% off dealer list prices."

In all fairness they used to sponsor me when I raced. That arrangement only came about after buying from them for a long time due to their prices and knowledgable staff, though.

Cheers,
Charlie

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Just one addition:
In MY 87 the 5 speed transmission fill plug was relocatet. Pre 87 needs to be filled up trough the hole and then get 0,5 Liter additional trough the speedometerdrive hole toped on.
After 87 the plug was relocatet a bit higher aloowing a complete fill and sure fluid check as well.

To low oil level will hurt the upper shaft bearings under normal driving ( didn´t see to much splashed oil )

Grüsse

[Rufblackbird]

I have finally gotten the GTi back together, thanks to all of your help. I'm having trouble adjusting the clutch; I have to press the clutch all the way to the floor and then some to get it to release. It seems like my clutch cable is too long? Also, it is very difficult to shift into 1st gear, and shifting into reverse doesn't require the normal push down to get it into reverse. Anyone know what might be causing this? So far, I miss the way my 915 shifts.

Another question. My odometer doesn't work, so I bought a set of gauges off eBay and put it in. I'm almost sure it works because when I turn the thing where the speedo cable feeds through, the mileage turns. Now I have it in the car, and it still doesn't work. Is there any way to find out if the speedo cable is in its appropriate space? Would I have to take off the dash, or can I pull the speedo cable out (disconnect from tranny first of course) to connect it? Also, at night when I turn the lights on, the speedo light doesn't come on, only the tach side comes on. Damn! I wish VWs were as easy as 911s!

Roland (absolute beginner? )- Thanks..I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks to everyone who have helped so far..hope this isn't OT enough to get sent to the OT board! Wayne you should sell VW parts...then this place would be the one stop shop for all my needs!

[FrdzRed]

Two things could be happening. One, the clutch pedal bracket on older Golfs had a tendency to bend and or break under normal use causing the clutch to not completely disengage. I would check your bracket first. Then 2, also on older Golfs the passenger side motor mount would collapse causing enough misalignment in the linkage to cause it to bind. You may also need to adjust your linkage underneath the car. A Bentley manual should help you with the adjustment settings. As far as the motor mount I believe you will have to remove the bracket and have the old mount pressed out and a new one pressed in. The trick used to be to replace the mount with one from a diesel engine which was more stout.

[FrdzRed]

As far as your odometer goes, the internal gears had a tendency to crack and slip on the shaft that turned the numbers. It usually is intermitent and is not to hard to fix. I think you can take the gauges out of the car and epoxy the gear to the shaft. The flex circuit is probably the culprit that is causing your speedo lights to not work. You can usually turn the light sockets a little to one direction or another to get a new "clean" contact.

(former owner of an '83 & '84 GTI)

[cds72911]

Hi again,

Well, since you just R&R'd the tranny I am not suspicious of the firewall breaking around the bracket, but it is definitely something to check on the Golf/GTIs as they age. I would lean toward the cable itself. There were two types used that I know of, one was self-adjusting and the other was manual adjusting. The self adjusting ones are prone to failure.

If you have the self adjusting type, I'd toss it in favor of the threaded manual adusting one. With the manual one you'll have
almost infinite adjustability, fewer parts to break and it is cheaper! If you have the manual one (threaded with a locknut at the tranny end), you may just need to adjust it (loosen the locknut and turn it in or out to increase or decrease the length of the cable sheath).

I'd also look to make sure (if you removed the clutch cable) that the rubber puck, large washers that the cable goes through on the engine side of the firewall are snug against the firewall. I recall there being a guide tube that it sometimes gets caught on.

One more thing I'd check is to make sure you put the little rubber spacer and the metal pieces under the lever arm that dis-engages the clutch. If the rubber spacer is gone then you have to make the arm move further to disengage the clutch, which means pressing the pedal further.

There is only one place to put the speedo cable on the back of the instrument cluster and it is a pain in the butt to get on there correctly. You have to push it on until it snaps, which means the square drive part of the cable is lined up with the inside of the cluster, otherise it won't go in and engage the speedo drive.

You can also check the tranny end of the cable to make sure the little plastic gear is still connected to the cable and fully seated in the hole in the tranny. If the gear is installed correctly and the drive wheels are moving then you should see the square drive end of the cable rotate with the instrument cluster removed. If not you have to make sure the gear is in there correctly or your cable is not broken (not likely). If it came off and is in the tranny it is a huge pain to get out (but it can be done). The gear just snaps onto the tranny end of the cable over a metal circlip type thing that holds it on with friction.

The lights are probably out because of a blown bulb. I'd replace them all while you're in there. It would be cheap insurance to save removing the cluster again later to replace bulbs. Or you could just put the good bulbs from the old cluster in the bad bulb places if you are in a hurry.

Let me know if I missed anything.

Later,
Charlie

[cds72911]

Oh, I did miss something big - shift alignment. You need to align the shifter so you won't go into reverse instead of first.

There is a special spacer made by VW for this job, that hooks over the reverse lockout onthe tunnel and over the plastic lockout part on the shift lever, but you can do the same thing at home with a cassette tape... Bear with me for a second.

* Put the car in neutral.
* Chock the rear wheels and jack up the front end, put jackstands in.
* Get under the car and locate the shaft that connects the shifter to the ball and socket part of the shift linkage below the exhaust manifold.
* Loosen the clamp the holds the linkage to the shaft (13 mm heads) until it moves freely (fore and aft and left and right).
* If you marked the position when you removed it, you can try to locate it there, tighten it and try it.
* If that doesn't work you need to re-align it. With the coupling loose, go into the car and remove the boot around the shifter.
* Move the shifter toward the reverse lockout position (between 1st and 2nd gear) in neutral. Use a cassette tape (narrow part) as a spacer to hold the shifter away from the lockout and in the neutral position.
* Either have a friend hold it there or rig something up to hold it in place.
* Make sure the tranny is still in neutral and then tighten the clamp under the car (wher the linkage attaches to the shaft)
* Try it, if it works, you're all set, if not do it again until it works.

(This works best with 2 people...)

Charlie

[Ted Stringer]

Thanks guys, I will be heading down a similar path with an '80 Dasher Diesel. I am replaceing the tranny and other stuff. I probably will be pulling the engine to respray the engine bay. I am also repainting the car and then Pocketrocket can take a break from daily driver duties.

[john70t]

If its anything like an 87 golf, the outside lever activates a shaft splined to a small arm which pushes on the throwout bearing. The TO is on the very far-right end housing, and can be viewed by taking off the round green cap green.
I had the same problem since I bought the car and ended up putting a few plastic spacers to raise the cable sleeve an inch at the trans.
A couple of problems might be the TO arm cracks and skips a tooth on the shaft, the rod might wear, wrong cable, bushing missing...

[Rufblackbird]

Thanks Charlie and others,
After consulting a friend (and before reading this post) he suggested I add spacers to the cable sleeve like John mentioned to remove a lot of the free play in the pedal. It worked, and it is shifting MUCH better now. Thanks everyone. I did it last night so it was too dark to see if I needed to align the shifter, but will update once I check it out.

Clutch TO bearing? I didn't see one when I changed the clutch...did I utterly f*** up?

I'll have to double check the speedo cable, at the tranny end. I know it was in good shape when I took it out. Is there any way to pull out the speedo cable so that it's easier to connect? I think I almost broke a couple of mounting tabs when I tried to push the instrument panel in.

Are the bulbs inside each individual instrument? Thanks!