OT Need advice on son's car trouble today.

[Mike Miller]

My son was on his way from out of town to our house for the holiday and had a brake down. He has a 94 Mitsubishi Eclipse with a 2.0 DOHC. Well the timing belt broke. First does this damage the valves or anything esle on the motor? Also does any body trust a mechanic to work on this car in the Austin Tx area? I would greatly appreciate any help thanks. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks
Mike Miller 89 911

[jrdavid68]

Can't help with the mechanic, but I can tell you what we went through with the 18 year old's '96 Eclipse a couple months ago. Same thing happened, eight intake valves and one exhaust valve bent - final bill was approximately $2000! Hope yours isn't as bad!

[john walker's workshop]

you would have to ask a mitsubishi expert about the bent valve thing. my guess is yes. a 944 will, a 924 won't, for instance. i hear those cars are really expensive to work on, due to parts prices.

[GIBSON]

I'm almost sure that twin-cam motor is zero-tolerance, i.e. bent valves if it loses timing. The only way to tell right now is to try to carefully turn the motor over by hand-checking for interference.
It is an expensive motor causing more than one owner to evaluate the value of the car vs. rebuild. Not the best way to start the Thanksgiving weekend...
Bruce Herrmann

[GIBSON]

Just thought of something, here on the West Coast we have a lot of these Japanese engine places that sell complete, low-mile motors. I know a lot of people who have used them with good results. What do you think John?

[john walker's workshop]

in japan, they have to replace engines at very low mileage, like 30K, due to emissions rules.(possibly safety rules too), so they ship the engines overseas. if the price to swap is better than the repair cost, it would be worth considering.

[Mike Miller]

Thanks Guys,
If I take it to a shop, is there a estimate fee in order to evaluate whether to rebuild or replace the engine? How would it work in order not to waste to much money and have an option on your decision?

Thanks so much guys!
Fealing like a water balloon about to burst.

[john walker's workshop]

just call and ask a mitsubishi expert if the valves bend. ask him average and worst case price. call the dealer and ask for the shop foreman, the service writers don't know diddly. call a couple of independent japanese car shops, too. all free advice. if the engine has high miles, a head repair may not be the best way to go. it would get it running though, most likely as good as it ran before. if you elect to have the head removed to see if any head, piston or cylinder damage has occured, expect to pay the time required to give a visual estimate. from there, you can tow it home, or fix it.

[jrdavid68]

As far as the estimates, when it happened to us, our mechanic (a little expensive but we trust him) said it would be $400-600 if no bent valves, $2000-2500 with bent valves. I had him go ahead and get the timing belt (new idler arm and hydraulic bearings etc.) and see what happens. Those were installed to see if there was any compression - none! Heads pulled and the above was discovered.

Mitsubishi parts are expensive! They mostly have to come directly from the dealer and they can take time to get.

[speeder]

John W.'s advice about service writers vs. shop foreman on phone is right on the money. Two things- I live in So. Cal. and have dealt with the biggest of the used Japanese motor outfits,(Wattanebe), w/ horrible results. I know the whole story about junking low miles cars in Japan and it is BS as far as this business is concerned. Last motor I bought from them must have been from a delivery vehicle in Korea where law dictates no oil changes before 200k miles. I have had much better luck w/ junk yards, especially if I can see the engine still in the totaled car w/ odometer intact.

Don't know about Texas, but there are plenty of outfits w/ 800 #'s who sell OEM parts for a lot less than dealer. Don't know if this helps you if shop will be doing repair, but makes a world of difference if DIY. Good luck and hope you have a nice Thanksgiving anyways!

[JOHNPAUL]

Mike ,
I've got the same car, same problem, sitting on side of my house . (My youngest brothers car). I've got the motor and trans disconected and ready to pull out . We need to do a clutch, head gasket , timming belt and a few other things that are worn out .
I've talked to some guys about checking / rebuiling the head , In my case I'm looking at possible cracks , I'm told it is not worth rebilding the head , All the 2.0 inculing turbo's use the same head so they are widely available ...The rain and snow stoped our repairs today ......

[Mike the mechanic]

I own and run a repair tuning shop in Montreal, Canada, I specialise primarily in VW and all German cars but I have a great deal of experience with the diamond star cars (eagle talon-mitsu eclipe- plymouth laser). The valves are bent, no doubt about it. I have done around 5 of these cars with this problem in the past 18 months. The worst one was a 1992 Talon, 15 bent valves, stripped timing belt, replaced the hydrualic tensioner, pulley, balance shaft belt, etc. and the bill came out to $1400 Canadian dollars which equals to about $800 us dollars. I dont know why you guys are getting charged so much. The head rebuild itself with all new valves cost $600, that is the most expensive part, too. I should charge $2000us too, lol.
Anyway, all the heads arent the same. First generation 2.0 turbos (1990-1992) have larger ports than the second gen heads (1993-1995) so if you install a first generation head on a second generation car, it is like porting the head. Also, the cams are different on turbo and NA cars, oddly enough, you will lose power if you use NA cams.

Get a breakdown of the total cost. You are being charged too much for something.

Mike
86 Carrera t

[Mike Miller]

Thanks Once Again!,
Mike the Mechanic, Your thoughts lend a little optimism. Wish we could find someone like you in the states but, I doubt theirs anyone else like you(great complement). We will start to look around though today. Again thanks a lot guys this board helps to bring some great opinions to the front lines rather quickly and at some of the most inopportune times.

Mike Miller 89 911

[jrdavid68]

Mike The Mechanic, where do you get your Mitsu parts? Maybe I could direct my mechanic to your source. He charged me $58 for the Exhaust valve and $46/ea for eight intake valves. I know he makes a few bucks on these, but even at $40 a valve, for your fifteen valves that's still $600 before any work and other parts. I also had $250 for machine work plus the timing belt hydraulic tensioner, idler arm and parts and the belt for the A/C and Pwr steering. We were also having problems with the car running hot, ended up with a new radiator. My total bill with radiator and other extras was $2300. My mechanic charges $75/hr.

I know he stands behind his work, comes highly recommended and will take care of me if there are any residual problems, did I get ripped off anyway? Also, this is in the SF Bay area where everything is overpriced!

[Mike the mechanic]

Mike, I am glad you feel optimistic. Shop around, I'm sure you'll get a better price. Jrdavid68, I dont charge $75/hr , I charge $60/hr Canadian, which comes out to about $40US. I think the Chrylser dealer here charges $70/hrCAN. I don't know why we don't charge as much as you guys in the US. We sould charge more! I have to work on cars that have suffered salt corrosion!! Anyway, I am not entirely sure on the price of each valve, but I think they were in the vicinity of $14CAN each. The valves are supplied by my machinist and all the other parts, including head gasket set, timing belts, tensioners etc. are all from the dealer.

Mike
86 Carrera t