How to clutch at a stop

[mod]

While idling (and not anticipating to go like a jerk on green), should the clutch be un-depressed and place the shift in neutral? At a stop, I used to leave the gear in 1st but with clutch depressed. I was told whenever the clutch is depressed, even with the car not moving, there is a wear on the clutch or whatever thing that may be linked with it. I would think if the clutch were not engaged, there should not be any wear on anything. Am I wrong or right?

[pwd72s]

I use neutral at red lights. Usually place the car in neutral as I approach the light. Brake parts are cheaper and easier to replace than clutches & gears.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

What wears out when you sit at a light with the clutch pedal depressed (doesn't matter whether the car is in gear or not) is the throwout bearing, which takes the full force of holding the clutch disks apart and allowing the plate driven by the flywheel to continue rotating. It's a small bearing, and they can wear out. And if it does, you need to drop the engine and separate the transmission from it to replace it. Not a 30-minute job. They used to be very vulnerable, so anybody who learned to drive in the 1930s and '40s ('40s for me...) was always cautioned to _never_ sit at a stop with the clutch pedal depressed. These days, you could probably get away with doing it for the life of a modern car, but it always hurts me to put unnecessary stress on a part when there's a perfectly easy way to avoid it. In fact, I don't even put the clutch in to shift into neutral when I coast up to a light; I know at what rpm the gears will gently disengage with slight pressure on the shifter...saving another few nanoseconds of the throwout bearing's life...

Stephan

[john walker's workshop]

after the T/O bearing gets old and doesn't rotate as well, it will also wear the pressure plate fingers where it pulls on them, as well as the tips of the release fork.

[911pcars]

In addition to Stephan's comment on the clutch throwout bearing, depressing and holding the clutch pedal forces the crankshaft forward (toward the front of the engine; fan end) which places pressure on the crankshaft thrust bearings (the main bearing that controls fore-and-aft play). This is considerably more expensive to repair as it's the last thing to come out of an engine crankcase.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[911pcars]

Addendum:
If you have a push-type clutch, the above is true. If you have a pull-type clutch, the force is in the opposite direction. Same wear though.

Sherwood

[pwm74]

When I dropped the engine for a clutch change, I reused the clip for the throwout bearing($1 item) and about after 5 miles of fun, it snapped of, I had to drop the engine for $1. I actually heard it spin on the tranny shaft as I Turned of the engine.
ALWAY USE ALL NEW PARTS WHEN CHANGING A CLUTCH.

[82SC]

it hink the neddle bearing can get frozen too...that bearing is not ment to spin all the time... even though it is at idle speeds...

[grant lyon]

Suggest you use the yellow light for the crossing traffic as your signal to clutch in and select 1st gear. In Europe (Germany), they're clever and provide a yellow light (on your light, facing you) before your green so you can get on with getting into gear. Here, you have to look at the cross traffic light. Saves you the tension of having a SUV (_idiot) trying to run over your tail.

[Jdub]

This is most interesting. While there are good reasons to keep your foot off the clutch pedal at stops I am from the motorcycling side of things wherein we are taught to keep it in gear for the inevitable idiot who "didn't see him..I swear officer" types who will rear-end you. Allthesame, I don't do this in any manual trans car, only on my bikes.

Jw

[JuiceMan]

Jdub: Same here

I always keep the vehicle in gear, you never know when somebody might not stop quick enough. At least that way you have a much better chance to keep from getting rearended!

[jluetjen]

I'll cast my vote for slipping the transmission into neutral when approaching the light. By the way, in addition to all the discussion about throw-out bearings, the clutch disks WILL wear out faster if you stand at a light with the clutch in. Any time the clutch is pushed in, there is a difference in speed between the faces of the clutch. I have yet to see an automobile clutch that completely disengages with clearance between the plates. Since the faces are in contact, I assume that one face rubs across the other -- so there will be friction which means wear.
Why wear down a clutch when you're standing still?

[campbellcj]

On the flip-side, the chance of somebody rear-ending you is also a good reason to NOT leave the car in gear.

If you do get tapped, your foot will likely slip off the clutch and you could launch into oncoming traffic out in the intersection, or plow into the car(s) in front of you.

Better IMHO to save the throw-out bearing and put the car in neutral, foot on the brake, and keep one eye on the rear-view mirror.

[pbs911]

I always have the car in neutral and the clutch out when I have to wait for a stop light. However, I generally wait until I know with reasonable certainty that the car behind me is going to stop without rear-ending me. I also use the cross-traffic yellow light to begin putting my car in gear. This way I am better able to keep an eye on the cross traffic, I don't unneccesarily wear the clutch system, and I'm ready to go when the light turns green. You just have to get used to the idea that you may not be able to take off as soon as the light turns green. I look at that as a plus since it provides additional time for any cross-traffic that might try and make the yellow. I've actually done this, was delayed getting it into gear. The car along side me took off into the intersection and SMACK, he was t-boned. Could have been me if I went right weh nthe light turned yellow.