How costly for annual maintenance of 8 - 10 yr old 911?

[robertinla]

I know mileage will vary depending on a lot of factors, but I'd appreciate input on what I should budget for annual maintenance of a used 911? I'm looking at buying a Type 964 ('89 - '90) with 60k - 100k miles, and it won't be my main driver as I'll put in only around 3,000 miles a year.

I'm willing to pay in the neighborhood of $30k, but I'm a little concerned about annual maintenance cost. I never bought a car that old before, but I've bought a few other cars (non-Porsche) that were 4 - 5 years old before and remember having to expect spending some amount for annual maintenance. I don't have time and inclination to do my own maintenance so I'll need to pay a shop to do all the work.

Will appreciate your input!

[team5150]

Hi Robert,

I have a very nice 1990 C2 Targa (that is in So Cal) that I will make you a great deal on. This car has had all the maintenance done on or before schedule so it doesn't need anything for quite awhile.

You can see it at http://members.rennlist.com/c2driver

I would think if you start with a good car you're not going to be spending much on it only logging 3K miles a year.

[robertinla]

Tom thanks for the offer, and it looks like a fine car, but I'm not ready to buy yet. For budgeting purposes, I have to wait for next year, but I'm just trying to do my research now.

Still interested on the kind of annual costs for an older Porsche, based on people's experiences.

BTW, I have a typo in my original post. I meant 1989 - 1993 range for the Type 964.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by robertinla


Still interested on the kind of annual costs for an older Porsche, based on people's experiences.

BTW, I have a typo in my original post. I meant 1989 - 1993 range for the Type 964.

The answer is you could spend a couple hundred dollars a year, or you could dump a few thousand. It really depends on the condition of the car and luck. There are some well documented issues with the 964s, particularly '89 to mid '91. Some of these engines develop head leaks that cost A LOT to repair. In addition, the original flywheels on '89 to '92 cars were problematic, and need to be replaced by a LUK (that's the brand name).

If you post on the 911 or 964 board on www.rennlist.com you should get plenty of responses. In addition, there is a web site that has ownership chronicles for a number of 964 cars. These are very instructive into the typical issues you might run into. Tha can be found at

http://www.porsche964.co.uk/

Click on the reviews link, then read the owners report. They also have a buyer's guide.

[wckrause]

"Still interested on the kind of annual costs for an older Porsche, based on people's experiences. "

I don't think a '89 through '93 964 is considered an older Porsche on this boards. That's damn near brand new.

You're going to have regular maintenance items that you can budget for. Things like oil changes, valve adjustment, fluids etc. The cost for this varies greatly depending on if you do the work yourself or not. A valve adjust might cost you $25, but a dealer might charge $300.

Unexpected costs are nearly impossible to budget for. I probably average about $200 a year, but I do my own work, and I haven't had any engine or major tranny work.

[robertinla]

Thanks for the info. It sounds like (and I hope) that maintaining a Type 964 isn't too much more expensive than any other car so long as you pick a good car to start with. I guess the wild card is with the unexpected cost, but I can live with this.

[a3holerman]

Hi,

Don't take this as norman but I just bought a 91 cab and will do most of the maintance myself. For the heck of it I called the nearest Porsche dealer for a quote on doing a valve adjustment. He quoted me $750.00. I questioned him as to why so much. He responded it was a very time consuming, and very comlicated adjustment. It just made me feel that much better knowing I'll be doing it myself.

Tom

Cape Cod

[wdarner]

You have already been given the best advise you will get. Buy one that is "RIGHT" and if you are only going to drive it a 3K miles a year your maintenance costs will be minimal. I drove 15 911's before I bought the one I now have. I bought it because it felt right. I did not have a PPI done because I bought it from a dealer and it had a 1 year warranty. My yearly oil change, inspection, this and that little things and toys for der Porsche costs about $500 - $1000 per year. I put less than 3K on mine a year.

[JonSeigel]

Since this is now a buyer's market, with patience you should be able to find a late '92, '93 or '94 964 for around $30k. They have all the old problems (flywheel, cyclinder head leaks, distributor) taken care of and are pretty bomb proof. Just make sure it has been well maintained in the past and you're all set. As I'm sure you know from reading this board, the key to buying a P-car is patience in finding the right one. Don't buy one just because you love the color, etc., if there is no proof that it hasn't been well cared for. Far fewer '93s and '94s were built compared to '90-'92 (it was the economy, stupid).

Good luck,

Jon

'93 C2 coupe and lovin' it


P.S. Some '93s do not have the vented distributor, but you can get the parts yourself for around $15.00 and it is an easy job. If you'd rather have a mechanic do it, it will take him less than an hour, so you'll be set back less than $100.00. However, it has to be done if it hasn't been done already.

[Joeaksa]

Robert,

You might also look at some of the cars a few years older than you mentioned. The 87-89 911's are regarded by many people as the best ones made (aside from a 73 RS and some Turbo's that is!) and they are very reliable. The so called "DME" cars, which use the computer to control many parameters of the motor and fuel injection, are very good cars. These started in 1984.

I have a 85 Targa and after almost 4 years my expenses on the car have been very low. I knew that the car (with 62k on the clock when I bought it) needed a clutch and speedo overhaul, so this does not count. I did a 60K inspection when I bought the car and found nothing out of the ordinary.

The one non-scheduled repair that did pop up was the alternator started to go out, and I did this locally for under $100. Other than that, misc expenses (gearbox oil) and routine oil and fuel filter changes have been my only expense. I have upgraded to new Bilstein shocks, but this was something that I could have gotten by without.

My one recommendation is to make sure that you have maintenance records for as long a time period as possible. I have them from day one and know what was (and was not) done to the car since its delivery from the dealer. Having a paper trail on what mods and routine maintenance has been done is very important if you plan on keeping the car.

When you do start to look, get back to us on the forum and tell us where the car you arre interested in is located. Someone will know of a good mechanic in the area and you need to get a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) done on the car to make sure it has not been abused before making a decision on its purchase. Then once you decide to buy a car, ask the group again for a good mechanic in your home area and stay ahead of maintenance and such and the car should never let you down.

JA

[robertinla]

Thanks Jon and JoeA for the additional tips. I'm glad I found out about this board as it's been very helpful so far.

And that's something I didn't think of before --- looking at '87 - '89 models. Getting a known reliable period and probably saving money on the initial purchase price, too.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Robert,

When you do start to look, get back to us on the forum and tell us where the car you arre interested in is located. Someone will know of a good mechanic in the area and you need to get a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) done on the car to make sure it has not been abused before making a decision on its purchase. Then once you decide to buy a car, ask the group again for a good mechanic in your home area and stay ahead of maintenance and such and the car should never let you down.

JA

These are great points. I've found the people on this board to be very knowledgable and helpful in this regard (some are licensed marraige counselors too . Most here have bought multiple p-cars, and have seen it all. Something that might not seem like a big deal to you could be something serious and vice versa. And the importance of a PPI done by the *right shop* cannot be underestimated.

[86Carrera]

You can search the archives for threads on what's better to buy, a 3.2L or a 964, in the last year this has been debated at least 3 times.

I've noticed the prices of the 3.2Ls have held steady while 964 prices have come down by several thousand this past year. Early 964s seemed to go for $30K last year, this year they're down in the low $20ks. Low mileage 3.2L cars (esp. 87 - 89 with the upgraded trans.) have actually gone up in price here in So. Cal.

Take away is that the 964 is a better value or the 3.2L more desirable, depends how you look at it.

When deciding consider that point, the pros and cons from the archives (964s have awesome engine power, the 3.2Ls feel lighter). Close call but exclude any 964s that have not had the repair work done professionally. There's a post somewhere from a mechanic on the 964, he had a very long list of quality problems, not sure if it was real. I think the higher repair costs for the 964s are what are depressing the values.

Getting one at a low price because of the reputation but that has been repaired at several thousand dollars cost to either the prior owner or Porsche could be a sweet deal for the buyer (documentation / paperwork is critical). Buy the wrong car and you would have been much better off with a 3.2L.

These is some risk in buying a 964 but potentially more pay back. Buying an original, low mileage or well maintained 3.2L is nearly risk free. I'd argue that a car with original paint, no track time, original owner and complete service history will go up in value assuming a reasonable selling price ($27 - 30K for a perfect 87 - 89 Coupe is not outrageous believe me). The problem is finding one.

No one wants to sell which should tell you something.

[Joeaksa]

86Carrera,

You hit the nail on the head. I am not planning on selling my car, period. No reason to do so. Sure, the A/C is marginal for a couple of months a year when the temps are 110, but who cares... thats what American cars are made for! My 911 puts a smile on my face every time I drive it and thats what I own it for, enjoyment.

I will get rid of my 85 model when someone hits and totals it, and not before. Then I will try to get a 87-89 model and keep it as long as possible. With the exception of a 73RS or Turbo I cannot see anything road going (that I can afford.. 959's not included) that I would want more.

Robert, the PPI is very important, especially on Porsches. Some of the higher mileage 3.2 cars can have valve guide wear from 80k or so. That said, I have heard of 3.2 motors going 300,000 miles before overhaul (with a valve job in-between) as well, so its an excellent motor. Also need to look out for a car that has been in an accident and such. If the car needs a valve job or has been pranged or has other problems, you need to know before laying down your cash. Get a good impartial mechanic and go through the car, buy a good one and keep it till your son or daughter is ready to drive!

JA

[86Carrera]

Thanks Joe. I gave up looking for an 87 - 89 and "settled" for a super clean, original 86. I have not been disappointed one bit and like you will keep this one until something really bad happens to it.

84 - 86 3.2Ls are the best kept secret as far as I'm concerned, there are more available in good condition than the 87 - 89s and prices are lower. Makes it easier to find a good one.

The only thing you give up is the G50 trans, and there was a great thread on here awhile ago about how a good 915 (like one that has been rebuilt) is actually better in some ways.

The 86s even have the 4 vent A/C system like the 87 - 89s (mine works great). 84 - 86s have a little more life to the steering, it's a little known secret that when Porsche re-worked the rear suspension to adopt the G50 they took the opportunity to "tame" the 911 oversteer one more time.

[robertinla]

All this is enlightening, and I'm beginning to open up to the idea of '84 - '87 models now. I didn't even consider this before hitting the boards b/c . Good stuff, everybody and I appreciate it!

[robertinla]

Hey, I just realized you live in Los Angeles.

Do you have a recommendation for a local Porsche mechanic to do PPI and other later mechanical work?

Thanks.

[Planter91C2]

i've had my 964 for 3 years. so far only needed annual oil changes. no problems.