Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
porschesaur
 
Peter Guldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Memphis
Posts: 130
Road Atlanta: Demonstration of Air Cooled Supremacy

Howdy chaps,

Following video is part one of two of the 2nd PCA sprint won by this car at Road Atlanta a couple weeks ago. Driver #1 qualified on pole and went through to win his race. Driver #2 had no qualifying time to stand on and started dead last with a GT2R class car 112lbs over class weight. He went through the entire field of the top PCA classes in only a few laps to win against the latest factory sequential shift cars running totally unrestricted, exceeding 175mph over the brow of the back straight on approach to the chicane.

Though time has moved on, in essence, this is a clear demonstration our air cooled cars still have a place at the top of the performance ladder in PCA Club Racing and one could say a 1997 993 3.8RSR converted to a 3.0 litre twin turbo and carefully setup is the most economically efficient (and durable) way to get there.



Here's the final prep after a gearbox ratio change, at minute 3, goes through the gears like a sport bike.


__________________
Cheerio,
Peter

1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -
Old 04-06-2010, 01:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Northern Motorhead
 
wildcat077's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Montreal,Canada
Posts: 3,062
Garage
Wow,

That was nice !!!
Phil
__________________
Cheers
Phil

89 Coupe,Black,95 3.6 engine and the list goes on ...
1983 944 SP2 race car PCA #96
Old 04-06-2010, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Green Skull 006
 
Jim Garfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,040
Impressive. Doesn't hurt to have a good driver behind the wheel either.
__________________
S Reg 823 R Gruppe 246
1955 pre-A Carrera Speedster...x 1974 leichtbau..."Sascha"
"It makes me sad. Our cars were meant to be driven, not polished" - Ferry Porsche while surveying a PCA Parade concours field.
Old 04-06-2010, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
dshepp806's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 4,551
Garage
yes,..a good driver...
__________________
Recording Engineer, Administrator and Entrepeneur
Designer of Fine Studios, Tube Amplifier Guru
1989 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe
25th Anniversary Special Edition
Middle Georgia
Old 04-07-2010, 02:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Posts: 114
Garage
Peter, thanks for those, awesome! The way that RSR blew by the field of cars was amazing to watch. It seemed there were only two cars that gave any kind of fight at all, but most looked like they had the parking brake on!

On the second vid, I've never seen anyone use brakes on the dyno before. Reason?

Thanks for sharing!
__________________
1973ish 914 Race Car
1988 911 Targa GP White, gone back to the Fatherland.
2003 BMW M3 6spd
1976 Datsun 280Z BRE Tribute race car
Old 04-07-2010, 05:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Certified Porsche Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 86
Garage
Racing. Not posing.
That's for sure.

Peter, do you run a data logger? Any chance of getting your data from that day?
Old 04-07-2010, 06:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
juicersr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wilmington,NC
Posts: 2,425
Garage
Peter, thanks as always.

The guys at PWR are doing some really phenomenal stuff with these TT small displacement motors.
__________________
'79 930/934 replica
80 RSR-look(Now in Sicily)
914/6 2.7 (Projekt 908/3)
1965 Karman Ghia-Class winner 2007 Carrera Panamericana/Ducati 900ss/GhezziBrian STW
D-Zug Produkte/D-Zug.com
Old 04-07-2010, 08:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Garfield View Post
Impressive. Doesn't hurt to have a good driver behind the wheel either.
What he said.
Old 04-07-2010, 09:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 19,725
Pat told me that car was a beast. He wasn't lying. It's nice to see our products put to good use...

Regards,

Matt Monson
Guard Transmission LLC
__________________
1974 911 Restorod
1974 914 Bumble Bee
2004 40 Jahre
2008 Cayman S Mule
Old 04-07-2010, 09:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
cycling has-been
 
bkreigsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 6,525
thanks Peter
I can feel that car pushing me back in my chair cushions as he heads down the back stretch. - yikes -
also amazing as to how much ground he makes up under braking as he progresses through the field
Bill K
__________________
73 911T MFI, 76 912E, 77 Turbo Carrera

Last edited by bkreigsr; 04-08-2010 at 07:54 AM..
Old 04-07-2010, 12:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 416
That was an exercise not only in skilled driving, but patient driving. Very nice to see those qualities come together.

Steve
__________________
'82 911 SC
Old 04-07-2010, 02:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Home of the Whopper
 
BK911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rocky Top, TN
Posts: 5,869
Garage
Wow, that was incredible. He made it look so easy.
__________________
1968 912 coupe
1971 911E Targa rustbucket
1972 914 1.7
Old 04-07-2010, 06:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Air Cooled
 
Craig_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 2,212
Garage
Great video and a very nice drive! Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

- CraigD
__________________
'78 911 SC "Blackjack" & '76 914/4 2.0L "The Brat"
- -
2012 Ducati Multistrada S, '98 Honda SuperHawk
'88 Honda Hawk GT, '77 Honda CB750K Cafe
'69 Honda CL350
Old 04-07-2010, 06:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
MrPerkles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 544
Garage
Send a message via MSN to MrPerkles
awesome car and driver
__________________
www.facebook.com/pages/Bournville-Frameworks
Old 04-08-2010, 12:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
porschesaur
 
Peter Guldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Memphis
Posts: 130
Howdy Chaps,

Hit’n it as follows:

Brakes on the dyno: You’ll note that often in PWR’s various dyno’s here. Running a motor off the scale only to coast down may suit drag racing or even street apps but not road racing where you may brake heavily and immediately pickup the throttle on the track. That throttle response with EFI (taking inputs from head temp, intercooler temps, etc..) may be completely different in this mode and the tables must be altered. Note, this braking isn’t snatching the straps, rather, just soft swipe of the pedal.

Data logging: Unlike the green and tan cars on this page where The David displays ECU data in the video, on this car it’d have to be captured as a download viewable only with a proprietary app. That said, of note, only 1.1 bar limited to 7,400rpm, short shifted at 7k once in the lead.

Drivers: PCA runs the largest most competitive single marque race series in the U.S. Though occasionally grating to the real hobbyists, what gives it undeniable cred is that not only a base of exceptionally talented drivers resulting in close fields but you have true measuring sticks of real accomplishment. Normally constrained ALMS cars running grand am prototype unlimited motors in carbon bodied cars free of weight limitation and true pro’s in their current mounts setting their cars up to win at subsequent events (Sebring).

So at the top level here, the underlying question is for the (well healed) enthusiast is, what can I set my sights for? For that enthusiast, known as a “dayjobber”, it can be represented at its highest level by these two drivers, and the goal is realistically - overall wins in the right car. In their 30’s/40’s, athletically trained, focused, within 400hundredths of a second of each other, they are the output of the former category of Junior Johnson’s proclamation , I’d rather muzzle a race horse than kick a mule in arse..or words to that effect. With 5 years to hone their skills, progressing from an NA 3.8 to a 2.6TT to now a 3.0TT in the same familiar car, it’s now longer about class, but overall. To go through a field of “faster” class cars in a little over half race distance, then back off and win by over 8 seconds says a lot about both car and driver.

Engine displacement: It’s perfect timing for this thread, but the PCA newsletter addresses this issue perfectly. Click here and scan to page 18. Non PCNA Engine builders are held to a higher standard these days for club race motors. You must talk season(s) rather than hours and that motor has to endure it with the driver’s foot on the mat and little/no concern for the tach. The mighty 935 never really got beyond about a 3.2. and the 993 GT2 ran as a 3.6 likely only because its output was restricted. “Big” for a bullet proof enduring race turbo is a 3.4, and candidly for one that’ll be even nicer to it’s running gear – a 3.0. Street app’s are to a degree, totally different.

Clarification: As always, merely the PWR site content creator/developer, video jockey – not connected to Pat Williams Racing, the car/drivers in any way - just providing various entertaining snippets to the forum as the principals here not inclined to do so.

And Matt, I love my Guards, haven't even had a radio in my 930 since going to EFI and PWR package motor 6 years ago. Like a symphony rising to the grand finale, when that whine starts to rise in third as the boost needle sweeps over, you just know big things are bout ready to happen.
__________________
Cheerio,
Peter

1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -

Last edited by Peter Guldan; 04-08-2010 at 07:24 AM..
Old 04-08-2010, 07:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered
 
Kevin Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,434
cool, Kevin
Old 04-08-2010, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 635
Garage
I swear, I thought it was a video game. I've driven Road Atlanta. . . just not like that.
__________________
Don Newton
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night,” George Orwell wrote, “only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
"I gave up visiting my psychoanalyst because he was meddling too much in my private life." Tennessee Williams
Old 04-08-2010, 12:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Honda God
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
Brakes on the dyno: You’ll note that often in PWR’s various dyno’s here. Running a motor off the scale only to coast down may suit drag racing or even street apps but not road racing where you may brake heavily and immediately pickup the throttle on the track. That throttle response with EFI (taking inputs from head temp, intercooler temps, etc..) may be completely different in this mode and the tables must be altered. Note, this braking isn’t snatching the straps, rather, just soft swipe of the pedal.


Why not use an eddy current or some form of "loading" dyno?

:shrugg:
__________________
Jack
The Original Hatchcrap
2002 East Coast Honda Challenge H1 Champion
'92 CX right hand shift, 1.8L 440bhp
'93 SI left hand shift, 1.6L 120bhp
Old 04-08-2010, 01:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
porschesaur
 
Peter Guldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Memphis
Posts: 130
Uh ...Jack .... that is an eddy current dyno as fully explained at that link above. Hours were spent on it developing these engine management systems fully utilizing load mode which could not have been achieved on an inertia.

When you are at the top of fifth in these larger displacement more powerful cars under load at nearly 8 grand with a wheel speed in excess of 160mph it is important to have the same razor focus you'd have in traffic on the track. This is a rare case where the person in that seat not only built the car, he developed the mgmt system, set the chassis up and races successfully. In a foot rythm/sequence honed over years on the track, it's more expedient for Pat to swipe that peddle reflexively than switch mental gears and key in a load for the sole purpose of slowing the rollers momentarily as opposed to gathering meaningful data.
__________________
Cheerio,
Peter

1950 Vincent Rapide - A Red Rapide Experience -
Old 04-09-2010, 07:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Atlanta suburbs
Posts: 305
Incredible car and excellent driver!!!

I saw this car at the PCA race shown at RA and it was stunning! All 3 of the PWR cars that I saw, of which i made it a point to look over, where very well prepared cars and quite impressive to me!!! I am no authority, but I do recognize good stuff and watching this car on the track, I would say they got it right! Absolutely smoked everything in the races I watched and there were several other very nice cars in the field.

Old 04-09-2010, 06:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:32 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.