Halon extinguishers

[targa88]

It supposed to be the best? But where do you find such an item @ a reasonable price? I need an extinguisher fro an upcoming track event.

[makaio]

IO Port Racing supply has Halon extinguishers. They are around $130. The good, if you don't use it it will last you around 12 years, and it will not upset your motor or anything else you use it on, since there is no residue. The bad, you soon will no longer be able to purchase Halon, and if it is windy, while you are trying to put out your engine fire, it will be very ineffective. I would recommend a nice dry chemical model, they sell for $20-35. Make sure you get one that can be recharged anually. They will extinguish the fire as good or better than Halon, they just make a mess. But if you have a fire, you are already dealling with a big headache. Just my 2 cents.

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Matt Chamblin
78 911 SC

[Leland Pate]

Matt, why will Halon no longer be available?
I have a dry chemical extinguisher in every vehicle I own. I know halon is supposed to be better but I also agree with the theory of "if your car is on fire...reside is your last concern".

[island911]

the whole idea of a fire extguisher is to put out the fire BEFORE serious damage occurs. If you catch it early you will have minimal damage. Engine bays are designed to take some heat.
The halon is nice as it doesn't leave the nasty abrassive powder everywhere. The halon is not so nice to the environment, it is said. ozone depleating I believe.


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'81 Platinum Metalic SC Coupe


[This message has been edited by island911 (edited 06-22-2001).]

[Superman]

I can verify all the above. A marine fire extinguisher servicing place told me Halon is preferred n marine engine rooms because of it's lack of residue. It doesn't hurt anything. But those same guys assured me that Halon is approximately HALF as effective as dry chemical at extinguishing fires.

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'83 SC

[twin plugged targa]

In marine applications- Halon is by far the most effective form of fire extinguisher for enclosed spaces.
No fire extinguisher will guarrantee the re ignition of the fire.
There is still no effective replacement for Halon. CO2 is the next best thing but you need twice as much quantity as Halon.
Dry chemical extinguishers are very messy but cheap. If you have a major fire I guess you will not be that bothered by a bit of mess as chances are you will need major work done after the fire anyway.
Halon is expensive but still available.
My advice would be to contact a fire servicing company who covers the marine industry (near a major port) and ask them if they have any old Halon extinguishers.
I gave such a company a huge amount of business and they sold me a 2 1/2lb Halon for $50 .
Some people may tell you that Halon can give dangerous fumes, but this is only when used on very hot fires and in enclosed spaces. The fumes are pungent and noticeable!.

Unless you figure you are going to be susceptable to fires- racing etc, then I would go for a cheaper dry Chemical.

Hope this helps (if you have'nt fallen asleep already )

Ben

[Doug Zielke]

Some years ago I engineered the electrical controls for Halon pre-action systems in Telephone C.O.'s. It is a very effective agent in a closed room (like the Telephone CO). Preferred around electonics due to nil residue. Toxic to life in confined spaces. Use of Halon is on the way out due to environmental concerns. It's detrimental to the ozone layer. As has been mentioned it's useless in windy conditions.

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'81 SC Coupe (aka: "Blue Bomber")
Canada West Region PCA
The Blue Bomber's Website

[twin plugged targa]

Fire extinguishers and fires can be a very in depth subject.
Has anyone used a dry powder extinguisher in an engine bay?. Apart from clean up, were there any detremental effects from the dry chemical?.

The type of fire you are fighting greatly determines your course of action.
For example, 'there is no such thing as an electrical fire!'.
A fire can be started by an electrical source but the following fire needs a fuel either insulation, fabrics of some sort.
To fight an electrically induced fire effectivey you should fit a battery isolation switch!!!. How many of you have done this? (I have'nt!.... yet )
Otherwise you may put out the fire only to waste your extinguisher and have the live electrics reignite your fire!.
....Just a thought!.

The other main type of fire I can imagine with cars would be a 'gasoline fueled' fire (heat ingnited).
How effective a Halon/dry powder extinguisher would be against this I would not know but I do know that they would not cool down the source of the ignition enough to prevent re ignition of the fire!

My only practical experience with fire fighting has been with maritime fires and training - you cannot always run away from a burning ship! . However, fire fighting aboard a smaller yacht rapidly turns into an abandon ship scenario!.

So my personal advice would be,
Unless you are experienced, and have already planned for such an event (electrical/fuel shut off!) or can catch it in the very early stages......
Get da hell atta der!!!!
....It's what insurance is for!



[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 06-23-2001).]

[JDaniel]

I had an electrically "induced" fire in the front trunk. I used a chemical extinguisher (all there was). That was 2 years ago. I still haven't been able to completely remove the powder from everything (even after repair/repaint). The carpet was slightly melted, but also covered with powder. I had to replace it.
I now carry a 2 1/2lb Halon extinguisher that I bought in a group purchase @ Rennlist. It was around $75 last year...


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Dan Tolley
1987 911 Coupe
http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294

[emcon5]

If I remember correctly from my Navy firefighting school, Halon works by displacing oxygen. Fire gets no O2, therefore goes out.

I would think if the ignition source of the fire (bad wires, fuel on hot exhaust, etc) is not affected, that once the Halon dissapates, you may be in for an unpleasant suprise.

Comments?

Tom

[targa88]

I am convinced of th merits of Halon. So where can I find, for a reasonable price?

[campbellcj]

Not sure if they've still got them, but I procured 2 2.5lb halon bottles & brackets from OG Racing last year. From what I recall they were $100 and change each.

Turns out I have a 10lb Halon bottle in my computer room at work, which was left in the suite by previous tenants. That must be worth a bundle. Might have to put it in my next race car project...

[Fishcop]

I've used dry chemical on an engine fire in a mate's 928, yes very messy but very effective. A detailer had the engine bay clean in no time, so no real harm done. Halon is soon to be illegal in Australia except in marine use (Ragtop is right, we'd never use anything else aboard our vessels). Are the old BCF extinguishers still availabble to you in the US? They were really effective!

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John Forcier
69 911T

[twin plugged targa]

Halon actually does not displace the O2!.
I can see why one might think that, but it actually effects the chain reaction of the fire, it effects the 'free radicals' (sounds like a new pop group! )
Halon is one of the most effective fire extinguishers available and as my car bursts into flames the last thing on my mind will be the ozone layer!.
For the odd rare fire that you have I feel Halon is one of the few environmentally un-friend things out there- ask any firefighter what he/she has in their home.
I will bet you they will tell you Halon!
Just a snippit of info, but foam fire extinguishers are only detergent and water! so if you have a solids fire that keeps bursting back to life throw as much detergent on it with water!.
The old types of foam ext. used to have animal blood and by products -yuk!.
late night rambling
ben

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Best is you have both in your car.
Also have a "goldfoil" or emergency blanket on hand.


Halon:

• [+] Instant ready
  [+] No maintance needed
  [+] leaves no residues
  [+] Can be sprayed trough thight spots so you dont have to lift the hood.
  [+] Better then CO exthinguisher
  [-] Not enoviroment friendly
  [-] Harms if you get blown

Powder/Foam:

• [+] Works better then halon
  [+] Makes flames from nitro methan visible
  [+] Will not harm you if the wind turns.
  [+] Some can be sprayed on persons at absolute emergencys ( read the manual or ask your fire brigade ) However avoid to spray it on skin, a jaket and patching is better.
  [+] Will suck some heat to foam up
  [+] To heavy to go complete with the wind, sticks to hot surfaces
  [-] Needs maintance, vibration will glog the powder
  [-] High failure rate if unmaintained
  [-] Rust can let explode the exthingusher under usage

iF you use a powder exthenguisher then previous hit it hard on the ground and shake it. If you have no external pressure bootle then try to press the trigger smothly and listen if the gas comes out trough the nozzle or the overpressure valve.

One trick is to use a umbrella or car jack if you will use a unknown unmaintained powder exthinguisher. Do this allways with chassis mountet exthinguishers from Trucks.

Reading the german fire report the chances to have a fire in your household versus your car are more then 500 times higher.
Chances on carburns go up with bad maintaince and killer stereo made by amatuers.
"Some" people use a unfused heavy gauge wire running to there amps. The fuse would cost to much money, power and sound.

Also don´t hesitate, keep cool, cars will not explode. On a average car you have 5-15 minutes until the fire gets inside the cabin. If you have and can prolong that by any seconds you will enlarge the chance of a truck coming by ( They have to carry two large 6kg exthenguisher in germany ) or the emergency brigade.

Some cars are hard to kill the fire. They all have magnesium engine parts ( Ferrari, Dino, Porsche 911 68-77, VW Beetle/Bus )

Grüsse

[Chris Bunker]

There was a vendor at Hershey (I can't quite recall the name at the moment) that was selling extinguishers with what they claimed was the replacement for Halon, I think they called it "Halotron" or something quite similar. Anyone ever hear of this type?

Chris B
78 SC

[cegerer]

Hmmmm ... are there really that many halon fire extinguishers discharging every day to harm the earth's ozone layer????? Sounds like the government protecting us from ourselves again.

[campbellcj]

Originally posted by Chris Bunker:
There was a vendor at Hershey (I can't quite recall the name at the moment) that was selling extinguishers with what they claimed was the replacement for Halon, I think they called it "Halotron" or something quite similar. Anyone ever hear of this type?

Chris B
78 SC

No experience w/ it, but it is a real product...

http://www.amerex-fire.com/sales/halotron.html

[makaio]

The reason you will no longer be able to purchase Halon is not because it is harming the earth's ozone layer, like they would like you to think, but the patent expired around ten years ago.

I' am a professional firefighter, and I would much rather use a dry-chemical extinguisher to a Halon. Most dry chemical extinguishers are effective on all classes of fire. Even combustible metals such as magnesium, although they are not the recommended agent. Granted Halon is nice for small fires, and not making a mess.

Hopefully none of us will need to use one on our cars though.

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Matt Chamblin
78 911 SC