Seeking advice on choice of model year

[jrc55419]

I'd welcome some advice. I'm looking for my first 911. I have reasonable mechanical skills but am far from expert, but I definitely want a car I can do some projects on. I have read Wayne Dempsey's book "101 Projects" and a number of them look right up my alley.

However, Wayne's book stops at 1989 and from my reading, it does appear that the 1990 redesign was pretty major. My question is, the 1990/1991 models seem to be pretty nice cars in a lot of respects but I am wondering if they are getting to the point where there is just very little a shade tree mechanic can access to work on. I'm wondering if the fact that Wayne's book stops with the year 1989 is a sign that I shouldn't expect to be able to work on anything newer as an amatuer.

Thanks for any advice.

[Kidasters]

Mid year 1989 was the "964" redesign of the 911. It's the first major change in the 911 since 1974. The first year, 1989-1/2, only came in 4 wheel drive. In 90 - they came in 2 wd and 4 wd - hence Carrera 2 and Carrera 4.

To me - the earlier cars are easier to work on. There is way more room to work on the engine with it in the car on my 3.2 84 911 than it was on my 89 3.6 911. And - I was looking at a friends 96 993 Targa today, and there is even less room on that car. Plus - remember - 4 wd, OBD I (and the diagnostic tool is getting hard to find - the Bosch Hammer), and all - they are more complex.

I still miss my C4, but I like my 3.2 911 way more.

Some books to read - "911 buyer's guide" by Randy Leffingwell

"The Used 911 story" by Pete Zimmerman. Pete is also a frequent poster here.

Good Luck

Ken

[G50]

if you are a newbie to 911s and want to get one to learn to work on, I'd get an 84-89 Carrera.

The later ones can be worked on, but no doubt they are more complicated. More stuffed engine bay, power steering, etc. It's a more complicated car.

The 84-89 is still a very basic car. There are good manuals available for it. There's a ton of DIY knowledge available on the 'net, it's a very "worked on" car by DIYers.

78-83 SCs are good, too. But they are older, as a group are therefore more worn out. They use CIS injection, which isn't impossible to work on, but IMO is more complicated than the 84-89 Motronic injection. CIS was sort of a Rube Goldberg approach to injection, with a lot of compensating devices, etc. Motronic is actually very simple and elegant. Much easier to troubleshoot, imo.

The SC-Carrera years have bottomed out in prices, making the Carrera a better value, imo.

As a newbie, I'd avoid 74-77.

A '73 or earlier is good, but for a newbie looking to get his feet wet with ownership and tinkering, the high cost of '73 and earlier may not be best for you. Unlike 74 and up, 73 and earlier are highly "collectible" and are priced accordingly. 74 and up are priced as "just" used cars. '73 and earlier is also very much "antique" cars in age, from the pre-galvanized era.

[hcoles]

89 3.2

[Nine9six]

87-89 3.2

[lane912]

65-68 start at the begining-

[kodioneill]

Originally Posted by G50

if you are a newbie to 911s and want to get one to learn to work on, I'd get an 84-89 Carrera.

The later ones can be worked on, but no doubt they are more complicated. More stuffed engine bay, power steering, etc. It's a more complicated car.

The 84-89 is still a very basic car. There are good manuals available for it. There's a ton of DIY knowledge available on the 'net, it's a very "worked on" car by DIYers.

78-83 SCs are good, too. But they are older, as a group are therefore more worn out. They use CIS injection, which isn't impossible to work on, but IMO is more complicated than the 84-89 Motronic injection. CIS was sort of a Rube Goldberg approach to injection, with a lot of compensating devices, etc. Motronic is actually very simple and elegant. Much easier to troubleshoot, imo.

The SC-Carrera years have bottomed out in prices, making the Carrera a better value, imo.

As a newbie, I'd avoid 74-77.

A '73 or earlier is good, but for a newbie looking to get his feet wet with ownership and tinkering, the high cost of '73 and earlier may not be best for you. Unlike 74 and up, 73 and earlier are highly "collectible" and are priced accordingly. 74 and up are priced as "just" used cars. '73 and earlier is also very much "antique" cars in age, from the pre-galvanized era.

Everything he said.

[LUFTMAN]

How much money do you want to spend usually determins what model range you should be in all years like any cars have there problems do not spend all your total money just to buy a car . Some years more labor intensive and part cost than others years. Set a realistic price you want to spend and start from there.regards tom

[jackb911]

A 87-89 Carrera with the G50 tranny.

I've had 21 Porsches since 1972, from a 1960 356B to a 2000 996. I've pretty much driven them all.

Aside from the marginal air conditioning... in my not-so-humble opinion, the G50 3.2 Carreras are the best of the bunch (when price is a factor) for a lot of reasons. Primarily because they actually provide the true, classic Porsche driving experience at a reasonable cost. They are also very easy to maintain if you are a DIY sort of guy/girl.

However, if money is not a factor, get a 997.2 GT3 and don't look back. That is an incredible car.

[rockrimmon]

Just went through this a month ago searching for my first 911. After exhaustive research I had decided on only two models:

- 78-83 911 SC
- Late 86-88 911 Carerra - With G50's

Started with the SC's first and I just did not like the 915 trans or the clutch. Not sure if it was because I was "poisoned" by all the people who write about the 915 or not. But I did not like it. I removed the SC from my list.

I found a cherry 88 Coupe from a PCA member who had multiple Porsche's and 10 years of receipts for the car. So far it's a love affair. My wife even loves going on long drives with it so far despite not yet getting in the driver's seat.

I plan on doing routine maintenance myself but will pay someone to do complex stuff.

My recommendation: Drive the car models you are interested in and let the cars tell you what's right for you. You can adjust your skills to the rest. Get a PPI in all cases. At one point I considered not doing it. Glad I listened to the experts.

On the other hand, my neighbor 6 doors up has a 97 911 Turbo. You can't even see the engine under the engine cover because there's so much stuff tucked in there. => But he's got 425 HP or so in there too.

This is now in my garage:



Tom

[da Vinci Dan]

I drove many p-cars before settling on my 84 with a 915 - don't rule it out. It is a fantastic transmission - just takes a little getting used to.

Like the others I would recommend sticking with the 84-89's. EAsy to work on, lots of DIY knowledge, inexpensive to buy and keep. Also, I think they look a thousand times better then the 964s.

[Ofishbein]

A couple of things that made a difference for me when I was looking:

I drove a very nice '84 and almost made an offer, but I couldn't take my eyes off the antenna in the fender. It seemed to pop up in my line of sight no matter what. I think they started putting them in the windshield in 1985 or 86.

Also in 1985 or 86, they lowered the seat mounts slightly. Being 6' tall that made a difference for me as far as being comfortable and not feeling like my head was brushing the headliner.

I ended up with a 1987 one-owner car that has been in CA its whole life. I drove several 915's along the way and that wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me. I think you would get used to it very quickly and, if not, there are always WEVO kits.

[Hodgey]

I'll preface this wth I am biased anyway.....but an 87-89 coupe with the G50 is heaven.....ignore the mileage, get a good PPi done and live the dream.

If you get a white one, all the better...but, alas I am biased

[Forza]

I'd start by checking out every half-way decent SC and Carrera 3.2 in your area. A well-maintained example of either will make a fantastic first-time Porsche. Don't worry if some aren't the body style or color you're crazy about, just get out there and start getting well acquainted with the 911s from this era. As you do, you'll come across 915 transaxled SCs and early Carreras, G50 transaxled late Carreras, air-pump vs. oxygen sensor SCs, manual seats (78-84), power seats (85-89), tiny dash vents (78-85), slightly larger dash vents (86-89), and many, many other changes between models from year to year. As you drive several examples, you'll begin to recognize and appreciate the differences and discover which combination of features works best for you. Obviously, a good PPI is a must, but only you will know if you've found the right Porsche for you. Both SCs and 3.2s can be ridiculously reliable when looked after, so I'd take some of the personal opinions expressed by others with a grain of salt.

In addition to Wayne's 101 Projects (which you already have), Peter Zimmerman's Used 911 Story is required reading prior to purchase, especially for someone considering an impact-bumper 911 purchase. Whatever you learn about these cars beforehand is something you don't have to learn the hard way afterwards....

[jrc55419]

Hey - thanks everyone. Lots of confirmation of my wariness of new models for a starter, and lots of good advice. If this is an indication of the kind of support a guy can find on this forum it's pretty darn encouraging.

I'm off to find a pre-89 model - will definitely be back!

[bezza911]

87-89 with the G50 gearbox and make it a coupe. trust me, I have a targa, would swap my left nut for a coupe, the best of the marque after all those years of development is that car. The 964 was a bit of a complicated dog, hence the early phaze out, but if you must have a 964, go the less complicated carrera 2. They do look great but....... As a rule, hard tops retain there value more also, and cabs, well, nice for the wife! sorry guys, just my opinion.

[Rot 911]

Being able to drive a 915 transmission should be a mandatory requirement to being issued your man card.

[bezza911]

So that's why my frau can't drive it, she's not a dude!

[twistoffat]

IŽd take an 87-89. Many say the 3.2 engine is bulletproof and the G50 gearbox is strong and a major plus even though its not as smooth as some will say. With that in mind whatevr one you choose get the best one you can afford and leave a buffer for repairs. HereŽs a buyers guide for a 3.2 but it applies to many cars

Porsche Carrera 3.2 - Buying a good one

[da Vinci Dan]

To modify a Clarkson quote:

Mastering the 915 is like loosing your virginity - the world has suddenly become a different place with limitless opportunity