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86 Carrera Coupe
 
janz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Holyoke, Massachusetts (western end of state)
Posts: 425
Fog Lamp Switch

I did the searches and looked hard at the schematics. Decided I want to be able to turn my fog lamps on any time I wanted as long as the key switch was in run position. Read all about the grey wire and moving it up to another fused source, sounded really good and easy. What I found was nothing like I've been reading about. If you haven't noticed its an 86 coupe that seems to have all the options ( if it didn't come standard) except heated seats, it has everything else. Here's a look at what I found, keep in mind the previous 2 owners did not pass on any records nor could they remember what had been done. It does have the headlight upgrade and the parking light switched on even gives the dimmed headlights. Fogs work fine as long as key is on and the headlight switch is pulled out all the way and only on low beams. Well here are the pics, I think I need to move #20 wire to a switched on with key position.








Old 06-17-2010, 07:51 AM
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86 Carrera Coupe
 
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more pics

more pics



Old 06-17-2010, 08:00 AM
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86 Carrera Coupe
 
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Would it be easier to follow the relay coil supply wire from the fog switch to the headlight switch, remove it and add it to a key switch 12 V source. I was wondering as the fog lamp switch is sort of busy are the ground wires also switched any where or are they solid grounds. If they are solid grounds then it should be easy to figure getting the switch to turn on just the fog lamps anytime the key is in the run position. Whatever was done for the headlamps has changed some of the wiring done at the fuse block as can be seen in the pictures.
Old 06-17-2010, 08:19 PM
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Hey there

If you want to have your fogs on all the time, you need to move the wire powering the foglamp relay to a source that is switched by the key. The fact that your fogs come on when you have your headlight switch all the way out, but they go out when you put on high beams, means that the fog relay is likely powered by a wire on your low beam circuit.

Look at your low beam fuses. Does one of them have an extra wire at the bottom (maybe top) that the other does not have? It's usually grey. If you cannot see, just disconnect the wires one by one until the fogs go out. That will be your relay wire.

Then move that wire to the bottom of a fuse that is always on with the ignition. Don't worry about the amps, its only a small draw to close the relay contacts for the fogs, it does not carry the power to the fogs themselves.

Good luck!
David
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:35 PM
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86 Carrera Coupe
 
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I was thinking the fog lamp switch was getting power from the head lamp switch at the switch itself. Guess everything comes from the fuse block. If you look at my last pic of the fuse block you can see a red wire jumping across the 19 & 20 fuse bottom. I will just try to locate the fog lamp switch relay actuating wire if its there and place it on a key on run position. I was just concerned that moving it to another fuse would cause some sort of back feed and cause other elec problems. Sometimes the ground is switched to make things work like for the brake light relay. I have the factory schem but not sure what some of the symbols represent and it gets confusing. Thanks for the help I will try again to get this figured out.
Old 06-18-2010, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janz View Post
I was thinking the fog lamp switch was getting power from the head lamp switch at the switch itself. Guess everything comes from the fuse block. If you look at my last pic of the fuse block you can see a red wire jumping across the 19 & 20 fuse bottom. I will just try to locate the fog lamp switch relay actuating wire if its there and place it on a key on run position. I was just concerned that moving it to another fuse would cause some sort of back feed and cause other elec problems. Sometimes the ground is switched to make things work like for the brake light relay. I have the factory schem but not sure what some of the symbols represent and it gets confusing. Thanks for the help I will try again to get this figured out.
According to our '86 fuse panel wiring, the red jumper wire should not be there.

Here is our fog light wiring.

good luck,

Gerry



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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."
Old 06-18-2010, 07:54 AM
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Though I have an '87, I was musing using the fog lights as DRL's because they go off with the key eliminating leaving headlights on. I have ordered a pair of H3 LED bulbs to provide what I hope will be brighter intensity. As I was investigating the switch operation, I discovered I have an additional headlight switch position before the running lights come on reached by pulling slightly out from full off. Then the fog lights can be illuminated. They do go off when the key is off.

So, since the manual does not mention this additional position, is this a fluke or just normal and not addressed in the manual?
Old 06-18-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Shultz View Post
Though I have an '87, I was musing using the fog lights as DRL's because they go off with the key eliminating leaving headlights on. I have ordered a pair of H3 LED bulbs to provide what I hope will be brighter intensity. As I was investigating the switch operation, I discovered I have an additional headlight switch position before the running lights come on reached by pulling slightly out from full off. Then the fog lights can be illuminated. They do go off when the key is off.

So, since the manual does not mention this additional position, is this a fluke or just normal and not addressed in the manual?

Roger,

Here is a jpg from our "86.



There is also what is known as "standing" lights.

These lights are activated (with the ignition off) by turning
the turn signal stalk in either the left or right direction.

The standing lights are a European safety requirement
for cars street-parked at night which illuminates the left
or right parking lights.


Good luck,

Gerry
__________________
1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."
Old 06-18-2010, 09:22 AM
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86 Carrera Coupe
 
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OK got it solved, I did old way Johnny back yard style and stopped trying to make sense of the Fact Man schem. I finally found the grey wire which was on the parking light fuse. Extended it and put it in the 8th fuse from the rear of the panel. My label says it provides power to the mirrors and interior lights and is switched. So after numerous tests the fog lamps are working the way I wanted. Pretty much the way 86 911 targa shows.
Roger, thanks a lot, I went out tried the headlamp switch to see how many detents there actually were, only 2, parking lights then head lights. But when I went to pull the switch out while the key was off the parking (daytime running) lights came on and so did my RADIO??? So now there's one more item to add to my list to investigate.
Anyway all is good for now with the fog lamps, Thanks.
Janz
Old 06-18-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janz View Post
OK got it solved, I did old way Johnny back yard style and stopped trying to make sense of the Fact Man schem. I finally found the grey wire which was on the parking light fuse. Extended it and put it in the 8th fuse from the rear of the panel. My label says it provides power to the mirrors and interior lights and is switched. So after numerous tests the fog lamps are working the way I wanted. Pretty much the way 86 911 targa shows.
Roger, thanks a lot, I went out tried the headlamp switch to see how many detents there actually were, only 2, parking lights then head lights. But when I went to pull the switch out while the key was off the parking (daytime running) lights came on and so did my RADIO??? So now there's one more item to add to my list to investigate.
Anyway all is good for now with the fog lamps, Thanks.
Janz

Which switch did you pull to activate the radio?

Is your radio a factory unit?

Gerry.
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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."
Old 06-18-2010, 09:41 AM
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[QUOTE=86 911 Targa;5411184]

According to our '86 fuse panel wiring, the red jumper wire should not be there.

Good luck,

Gerry

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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."

Last edited by 86 911 Targa; 06-19-2010 at 06:29 PM..
Old 06-18-2010, 11:04 AM
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86 Carrera Coupe
 
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Like I said it appears that someone has been in there most likely for the headlight upgrade but I can't locate a relay for it. Everything seems to be working fine so when I have more time I will disconnect battery and then pull the fuse holder and relay panel off so I can see where the wires are going and doing. That red jumper has me baffled also.
Old 06-18-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janz View Post
Like I said it appears that someone has been in there most likely for the headlight upgrade but I can't locate a relay for it. Everything seems to be working fine so when I have more time I will disconnect battery and then pull the fuse holder and relay panel off so I can see where the wires are going and doing. That red jumper has me baffled also.
"Someone" has played "Fingerpoken".....

Email me when you are ready to troubleshoot,
we'll fix it.

Gerry
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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."

Last edited by 86 911 Targa; 06-18-2010 at 11:54 AM..
Old 06-18-2010, 11:44 AM
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Pulled out head light switch and radio comes on in either position while key is off. No it was installed from previous owner (Sony).
Old 06-18-2010, 11:57 AM
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Thanks Gerry I'll do that. Thought I had things pretty well straightened out till now.
Old 06-18-2010, 12:00 PM
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Well, I guess I have something unique with my switching. I definetly have 4 positions on the headlight switch. 1 which is Off, 2 which provides power to the fog light switch, 3 which turns on the running lights and 4 which turns on the headlights. There is a definite detent on the second position though not as positive as 3 and 4. Until I move the headlight switch to position 2, the fog light switch does nothing. Once on, turning off the key even with the headlight switch in position 2, the fog lamps go off as expected.

I am familiar with the signal stalk position used for parking lights on a single side, something quite useful but confusing to those whe don't know about it, i.e. "Did you know your lights are out on the "blank" side"?
Old 06-18-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Shultz View Post
Well, I guess I have something unique with my switching. I definetly have 4 positions on the headlight switch. 1 which is Off, 2 which provides power to the fog light switch, 3 which turns on the running lights and 4 which turns on the headlights. There is a definite detent on the second position though not as positive as 3 and 4. Until I move the headlight switch to position 2, the fog light switch does nothing. Once on, turning off the key even with the headlight switch in position 2, the fog lamps go off as expected.

I am familiar with the signal stalk position used for parking lights on a single side, something quite useful but confusing to those whe don't know about it, i.e. "Did you know your lights are out on the "blank" side"?
Year and model please.
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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."
Old 06-18-2010, 04:32 PM
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1987 Carrera Targa is the year and model. I only have the Bentley wiring schematic and can't correlate it to what I have. Something is clearly different based on the owners manual description and other posts. I'm not complaining, rather I like the idea I can have fogs on for visibility and not run the battery down when I exit the car and forget to turn something off.

The only concern is that this "phantom position" may also be turning something else on but I can check battery current to see I suppose.
Old 06-18-2010, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Shultz View Post
1987 Carrera Targa is the year and model. I only have the Bentley wiring schematic and can't correlate it to what I have. Something is clearly different based on the owners manual description and other posts. I'm not complaining, rather I like the idea I can have fogs on for visibility and not run the battery down when I exit the car and forget to turn something off.

The only concern is that this "phantom position" may also be turning something else on but I can check battery current to see I suppose.
I'm not familiar with the four position switch.

Do you have a Euro model car?

Here is the wiring for our '86. P/N 911-613-029-02

Because the Bentley did not show all of the connections, I made this jpeg when I replaced the switch.




The '87 switch. P/N 911-613-029-03

Note: There is an additional connector (#58) on the '87 switch.




Good luck,

Gerry
__________________
1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."

Last edited by 86 911 Targa; 06-19-2010 at 12:00 AM..
Old 06-18-2010, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Shultz View Post
1987 Carrera Targa is the year and model. I only have the Bentley wiring schematic and can't correlate it to what I have. Something is clearly different based on the owners manual description and other posts. I'm not complaining, rather I like the idea I can have fogs on for visibility and not run the battery down when I exit the car and forget to turn something off.

The only concern is that this "phantom position" may also be turning something else on but I can check battery current to see I suppose.
Roger,

Here is the CKT from our '86 factory manual.


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1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."
Old 06-19-2010, 07:05 AM
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